RivaTuner 2.0 RC15.4 is online

At the risk of asking a question that I can't understand the answer to, what was the problem with RT and dual Opterons? Since mine didn't crash, I'm wondering if it's a motherboard-specific problem, or a BIOS issue, or what.

 

Well, maybe I spoke too soon. I took out the Ti4600 that I was experimenting with and put in a 6800 GT. Using RT 15.4 and 71.84 nVidia drivers, the system will boot but there's something wrong. When I try to launch 3DSMax with the MAXtreme drivers (Max 7.0SP1, MAXtreme 7.0.3), Max is so slow it takes about a minute to just come up. Screen redraws are so slow I can *watch* it repaint individual viewports. CPU utilization is100% for one of my CPU's and 2%-3% for the other one. Clearly something is wrong here.

I would try the 15.5 build you sent me but it is apparently expired. If you've got the problem fixed, do you mind if I can make use of it? Or are you planning a general release sometime soon...like tomorrow -- pretty please??

 

Okaaaaay...since there isn't any "manual" that comes with RT, that's going to be kind of hard to do.

I did read the release notes, though. The 15.4 release notes say "RivaTuner may work improperly on dual Opteron systems" and "RivaTunerStatisticsServer may work improperly with 3DStudio MAX 6/3D Studio MAX 7." It claims both will be fixed in a future release.

So, while I appreciate your "hint" to RTFM, it seems pretty useless. I'm not some clueless newbie here. Would you mind be just a little more specific?

 

I guess that depends on your definition of a "manual" now, doesn't it? The RT installer puts a "README.HTM" file in the install directory. That file consists of a license agreement, system requirements, features, a known issues list, and a version history. Is this what you call a "manual"? If so, the only thing it says about the issue I'm describing is exactly what I quoted earlier. If there's a "manual" somewhere else, please feel free to describe to me where it is. There is no need or call for you to be insulting or condescending to me in this manner.

As for help context options, I'm quite aware of their presence. Does any of it pertain to slowness? Does any of it even mention 3DSMax, MAXtreme, or anything else relevant to the issue we're discussing? No, it does not, other than the issues I've already outlined to you, issues you claim to have identified and addressed. It gives detailed info on what the ROM straps do, and what the "unlock professional capabilties" do, both of which are checked and enabled. Or did you assume I didn't bother reading it first? If you did, you were wrong and jumping to conclusions in your haste to insult me.

As for your "There isn't any FAQ" comment, I've looked at all the sticky forum topics on this forum and none of them are called "RivaTuner FAQ" or even have the letters "FAQ" in the title. The installation program group of RT has no FAQ document, and there is no mention or link to any such document anywhere in RT that I can find. Under the "About" tab on RT there is no mention of an FAQ or link to it, and under the "Links" tab there is no mention of an FAQ.

Is this a joke? No it's not a joke. I'm not trying to tick you off, but you are being rude. I asked for help, and you're treating me like some clueless little kid who's bothering you. I realize that lots of people in these forums might not bother to read the docs you supply before pestering you with the same questions over and over again. This is not one of those times and I think you know that. Let's not be insulting, let's just answer the question and solve the problem. I've offered to help you solve some of these problems. I have not earned you being insulting to me.

I'm trying to be friendly and helpful here, and you're cutting me off and offering comments that are just plain rude. Is that any way to treat someone who's trying to help not only you but everyone else in these forums?

 

Well, gee, there is a FAQ...buried at the bottom of the README after all the version notes. Could you have possibly picked a worse place to put it? Any logical person will look at the structure of the README and conclude there's nothing useful beyond the bottom of the release notes. Want some advice? If you want people to use your FAQ, why not make it slightly easier to find? Most programs put the FAQ as a link in the programs folder or put it pretty darn near the top of the README. By putting it at the bottom, you're increasing the likelihood that someone will overlook it. For God's sake, I looked in the forums, I looked in the programs directory, and I looked in the "About" and "Links" tabs in the program and none of that referred to any FAQ.

I've seen you go off on people before in these forums for not reading the FAQ. You want to call me on that, fine, call me on it. But if you'd put the darn thing in an obvious place I'm willing to bet you'd see a decrease in the number of people asking questions about things that are answered in the FAQ.

No, I'm not. I'm acting like a person who's done a fairly thorough job of looking for the answers in all the typical places and not found anything helpful. Take some advice here, Unwinder: put the FAQ in a more obvious place. I didn't just up and say "oh, I have a problem, let's ask Unwinder!", I looked around to see if I could solve the problem myself first. Your condescending, insulting attitude has only served to make this problem far worse than it should be. If you're tired of people not reading your FAQ, maybe that should be a hint to you that it's not as easy to find as you might think.

Having written a fair amount of documentation in my time, not to mention several enterprise-wide I.T. policies, I can understand your frustration. I have nothing but respect for the time you've put into this project, and I am extremely appreciative of the fact that you're doing it. Your work is a benefit to us all. However, you seem more than a little bitter about people asking you questions. Again, I'm going to point out a rather obvious fact: if people aren't reading your FAQ, perhaps there's more to it than people being lazy. I am not lazy. I put forth more than a passing effort at finding the FAQ and I didn't find it. My prior post should make that fairly obvious, as I noted every single place I looked for it and still didn't find it unti you pointed out it was at the end of the README. While it may be perfectly obvious to you where the FAQ is, that does not mean everyone else thinks like you. Again, take a little advice and change your approach. You're likely to get much better results and you'd stop being so bitter.

OK, let's look around in this FAQ for a bit, shall we? Is this what you're talking about?

If so, then using the ROM straps is supposed to fix this issue. I am using the ROM straps (and the "unlock professional capabilities") and it's not fixing it. My system isn't hanging, it's just running Max very slowly using MAXtreme. So is this it? Is it not? How the hell should I know, that's why I asked you.

Or could you be referring to this?

Is the problem I'm seeing one that you don't intend to address? If so, just say so and I'll quit bothering you. However, since you indicated the beta testing of 15.5 got around the dual Opteron problem, I'm guessing you have fixed this issue. This is why I asked the question to you in the first place, because the problem didn't seem to be addressed anywhere else. It still doesn't appear to be addressed in the FAQ. A string search of the entire README doesn't turn up any hits for "maxtreme". Still care to insist this specific problem is addressed in the FAQ?

I wouldn't imagine this is a 71.84 driver issue because I've got a uniprocessor box sitting right next to the "faulty" one running RT 15.4 and it works just fine with MAXtreme. So the problem seems to be rooted in a dual Opteron setup somehow. Max works fine in DirectX mode, but of course the nice thing in MAXtreme are lost by doing that.

Care to comment? Or are you going to throw another "RTFM" at me? I really think this is a problem that is not covered by the FAQ or I wouldn't be asking you about it. Of course, if it is covered in a specific section that I haven't found yet, please point it out to me and I'll gladly eat my words and publicly apologize for bothering you if that would make you happy.

 

I'm not trying to flame you here! Ever hear of constructive criticism?

Like any common person, I opened the document and scanned the table of contents. The list of prior versions went down beyond the bottom of the page so I didn't see the FAQ link!. I clicked on the hyperlinks to "Known Problems" and I honestly didn't realize there was anything below the list of prior versions. Why bother looking for something that you don't think is there in the first place?

I don't think a tantrum is in order here, but I can't stop you from throwing one. This has escalated completely out of control simply because you're insistent on being rude and condescending when I'm trying to help. Did I not read the entire README.HTM from begining to end as soon as I saw it? No I didn't. The thing is unbelievably long and poorly organized. If the FAQ portion is so darn important it should be the very first thing in the Table of Contents, yet instead it's near the end, the very last place anyone is going to look for it.

Look, you're mad. I can see that. Cool your jets for a minute and calm down. I've not insulted you anywhere near the amount you've insulted me, yet I'm not steaming mad about this whole affair. I'm still trying to offer help, help that just might make your life easier. If you are going to utterly and totally refuse to take any of that help, I can do nothing more.

 

@prisoner881
Kindly remember that RivaTuner is something that you are getting for FREE FREE & FREE .

Read the proverb : "A man may well bring a horse to the water, but he cannot make him drink."

but, Unwinder has been kind enough to "help us drink" through these forums !!!

Moreover, fearfully experiment yourself and have lots of fun

and then, No hard feelings please

 

I don't have any hard feelings here. I'd gladly pay Unwinder for what he does. I hope he calms down a bit and thinks this over. There's another fine proverb that covers this situation: you can attract more flies with honey than with vinegar. His self-destructive behavior isn't helping anyone, least of all himself.

I can understand why he's so upset at people who ask questions about the simplest things that are so easily spelled out in the README or the forums, but what I couldn't understand is why he won't listen to anyone. When people don't read the FAQ, his only response is "RTFM!". He won't even consider the possibility that the FAQ is poorly placed, poorly organized, or anything else. People don't like being browbeaten into submission. If he wants the simplistic questions to stop, he has a finite number of choices. He can (a) restructure the FAQ so that people can actually quickly find answers to their problems or (b) he can rant and rave, or (c) he can just leave the forums, forget RT, and go sulk in a corner somewhere. The productive, mature option here is (a). Albert Einstein once defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results." I can't understand why Unwinder refuses to acknowledge that yelling "RTFM" at everyone doesn't make anything any better. The solution is to figure out why people aren't reading the FAQ in the first place. Fix that and his nagging newbies go away. That was my constructive criticism.

He raved at me to read the FAQ, but he didn't want to listen to the fact that I had read it (after spending a lot of time searching for it in all the usual places and not finding it) and it still didn't help. He and I had agreed to work together to solve a problem with RT and dual Opterons. He'd even sent me a beta of 15.5, which I tested for him and reported back on (after he'd already solved the problem, apparently). When I inquired as to what the problem was (and possible solutions), he just exploded. I guess he forgot I was trying to help, but after that point he just wouldn't listen anymore. Friends of his indicate he's under a lot of stress these days, so perhaps that explains it.

Anyway, since he's "taking a break" for an indeterminate amount of time, perhaps we can continue in his absence. I believe some people have gotten RT 15.4 to work with dual Opterons and some haven't. My RT 15.4 works just fine softmodding a 6800 GT into a Quadro 4000 on dual Opterons. 3D Studio Max 7SP1 works just fine as well so long as I don't use the MAXtreme driver (v7.0.3). When I do, the viewports operate so slowly you'd think they're frozen (but they aren't frozen, which rules out one of the problems outlined in the FAQ). Running Max in DirectX mode doesn't exhibit any ill effects. NVStrap 1.7 is loaded, ROM Strap PCI device ID is enabled, and pro capabilities are unlocked. I think that kind of rules out me not knowing how to properly softmod a 6800, but again, Unwinder wouldn't listen long enough to find that out.

I would've chalked this up to some sort of incompatibility between NVStrap and the MAXtreme driver except for one very important point: I've got almost this exact same setup running just fine with NVStrap on a uniprocessor Athlon64 box sitting right next to my duallie Opteron. RT 15.4, Max 7SP1, MAXtreme 7.0.3, and all the RT settings are identical. The only difference is that the single CPU box has a 6800 Ultra in it and the duallie Opteron has a 6800 GT. Both cards are PNY brand.

Now, I'm sort of wondering whether or not the RT 15.5 beta Unwinder sent me might've done something funky that 15.4 doesn't like. It also gave some very weird behavior during nVidia driver installation. I'd uninstalled all nVidia drivers, installed RT 15.4 (which complained about the 15.5 installation and overwrote some files to fix it), the went about re-installing the nVidia drivers. Installation went fine and I did a reboot. The box hung on reboot just after the Windows splash screen. I rebooted it and then it came up. It ID'd itself as a Quadro and works fine as outlined above, but MAXtreme will not run properly no matter what.

I was about to explain all this to Unwinder but, as you can see, he was not in the mood to listen. I'd love to know how "RTFM!" is even the slightest bit useful when you're trying to experiment with an unsupported hardware configuration, but as I stated above, perhaps Unwinder forgot that I was trying to help him figure this problem out.

When he calms down, I going to continue to offer to help. It's up to him whether or not he takes it. Burning people who are trying to help him apparently hasn't won him many friends.

 

Please don't get involved with something that doesn't concern you in the least. Unwinder and Prisoner said what they had to say, leave it alone. Thank you.

And Prisoner. Just let it go man. I'ma close the thread. I know you're an intelligent guy, so I know you're above the petty bickering. You haven't gotten out of line so far, but I just wanna make sure it doesn't come to that.

Thread closed.