Do you guys use vsync?

120Hz is useful

 

I use it because of two reasons :
1- it will make the game look prettier .
2- and to lower the temperatures...(ie if I play COD:MW2 the fps without V-Sync the fps will go over 100 which means higer workload and gpu usage resulting in higher temps (I get 91 degrees with it set to OFF) , however when I turn it on @ 75 Hz the fps will be 75 fps constant & the temps will max out at 75-80 degrees.

 

Hate tearing, so vsync always on in D3DOverrider (when it`s possible).

 

As I stated, I said you would not 'notice' tearing, not that it wouldn't occur. The tearing effect would be so slight as to not warrant the use of vsync.

Thats what I said.

That's just wrong.

Enabling triple buffering DOES NOT give you the same frame rate as with v-sync off. Vsync is still enabled, so the card still cannot output a new frame until the v-blank / vertical refresh is ready for it.

While it SHOULD give you more than the 30fps if you drop below 60fps, it will NOT be the same as with vsync disabled.

Well, thats not entirely true either.

If say you run a 75hz screen, and vsync, and you're only getting 50fps, vsync will drop it to 37.5fps.

Turning on triple buffering will get 2 frames drawn every 3 refresh cycles (75x2/3 = 50) giving you 50fps. This is just an example of where they'd be the same.

Lets say you're getting 60fps constant, using 75hz refresh.

Vsync on, without triple buffering, you'll get 37.5 fps. With triple buffering, you'll still only get around 50fps - which is less than you'd get without vsync on at all.

Essentially, with triple buffering, you'll get 2/3 of the refresh rate in FPS, if your FPS drops below the refresh rate.

 

i Beg to differ on the last point i`m afraid .If you stand in crysis for instance facing a particular way that gives you say 42 fps with vsync off and then went to the menu and switched vysnc ON you would go to 30 FPS....that much we agree on and makes perfect sense.But if you were then to enable tripplebuffering and then went back to the game again you would see 42 fps again.The graphics card would still produce the same amount off frames as vsync off aslong as you are below 60 fps.

And just to make sure i`ve just tried it on crysis in 2 spots .....69 fps with vsync on+tripplebuffering.....69 fps with vsync off.And in another area 97 fps with vsync and tp on and 97 fps with vsync off.i have a 120 hz monitor btw,but the result would be likewise with with a 60 hz screen(albeit it with lower numbers).

 

Because of tearing, plus it keeps my gpu cooler if its only utilized @60fps. Oh, and also with vsync I cure issues with microstutters and what not, so its a win win situation for me. And to be honest, anything over 60fps is useless and is to me for ppl who love their e-penis computers and want every damn little xtra frame for no real live use at all. So its about ego having anything over 60fps. So in short: Youre killing youre hardware faster for youre ego´s sake.

 

Unless of course you have a monitor thats 120hz which means YOU DO see the extra 60 frames unlike having 120 fps on a 60 hz monitor.I assume thats what you mean

 

Obviously that must be your softwarw reporting how many frames your card is rendering.

If you were right (which youre not) enabling triple buffering would merely be over riding vsync. With vsync on your card can still only rendrr frames in sync with vblank, or if below, vrefresh / integer. Triple buffering allows 2 rendrred frames every 3 refreshes. Trust me, your sofware might be reporting 42 but youre onky avtually getting 40 or youd get tearing.

You dont quite understand how.it works.

 

waste of hw right there :banana:

 

The majority of the time I don't use it. I've had more issues with it on than with it off and I only see the benefit if you're experiencing mass tearing.

 

I`m sorry but i`ve never seen anything like your explanation before and believe it to be wrong.If your frame rate is at any point below the refresh of your monitor then with triplebuffering enabled+ vsync you will get the same frame rate as you would have with vsync off.

With vsync off using a double buffer system the back buffer always gets displayed as soon as it`s ready....hence why you aren`t tied to the divisible amount of your monitors refresh rate i.e our theoretical 42 fps.

Now with vsync enabled using double buffering if the back buffer isn`t ready for the next monitor refresh i.e 1/60 th of a second the back buffer image when swapped to the front is displayed twice.This is why your fps takes a hit down to 30 fps because it can`t sync with the monitor on anything other than a divisable amount 60,30,20,15,12,10,6,5,2 or 1...these are all frame rates you can hit when using vsync on with double buffering.

Now with triplebuffering the 3rd buffer takes up the slack of the double buffer by having another image rendered to use if the the double buffer is taking longer than 1/60 th of a second to draw,hence with triplebuffering your always getting the same amount of frames as with vsync disabled......your monitor is able to take an input of a frame every 1/60.Which means it can display frame rates ranging from the entirety of 1 to 60 JUST like with vsync disabled i.e we see our 42 fps again but without tearing.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2794/2

Is another article and the guy who wrote it answers a question on page 14 thats close to what we are talking about :-

"The advantages still exist at a sub 60 FPS level. I just chose 300 FPS to illustrate the idea more easily.

At less than 60 FPS, the triple buffered case still shows the same performance as double buffering -- they both start rendering the same frame after a refresh. double buffering with vsync still adds more input lag on average than the other cases."


*edited to say check my post further down.....everything i`ve said here might not be strictly True *

 

Ofcourse.

 

BUT having said all of that above i`ve stumbled across this which i believe is what your saying :- http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=169911




"For those still wondering what he's caught on to, allow me to extend on the concept he has already roughly laid out, which is stepped output delay timings incurred by synchronization, starting with the standard double-buffered rendering condition with vertical synchronization forced. With this set the GPU will limit its frame output frequency to only occur when two conditions are both satisfied: 1) the monitor is about to refresh, and 2) there is a complete frame available in the graphics memory. Ideally, the requirements for the 3D environment being rendered match or are below the global system performance capacity - that is, to produce a constant frame rate of 60 FPS, the system is at least capable of achieving this in some way - allowing the frame rate to meet or exceed the refresh rate of the monitor, but this is often not the case.

Due to the nature of vertical synchronization forcing the video subsystem to wait for the monitor's refresh rate rather than operating independently of it, the overall frame rate can slow significantly if the general computing requirements for a scene exceed those available to produce a frame rate matching the refresh times, no matter how slightly. For a monitor with a refresh rate of 60 Hz, a 45 FPS frame rate and all those to 30 FPS will objectively equate to 30 FPS because of how the frames are stored in the frame buffers and how the completion times correspond to the monitor's refresh rate. When the refresh happens, frame 1 is whole and is displayed while two-thirds of frame 2 is written to the back buffer. The next refresh happens, but frame 2 is not complete so the monitor copies the previous frame from the display buffer again. On the next refresh, the last third of frame 2 is written and copied to the display buffer while one-third of frame 3 is written to the back buffer. By the next refresh, frame 3 is completed and has been flipped to the display buffer to be shown on the monitor. Two frames are completed every four cycles, giving a frame rate of exactly 30 FPS. This update pattern remains the same for any frame rate between 59 FPS and 30 FPS.

With triple buffering, an additional back buffer is created that allows the GPU to continue drawing frames while it waits for the monitor to perform a refresh. This means that instead of every other frame producing a new image, two out of every three will, providing an objective frame rate of 45 FPS for frame rates 59 FPS to 45, 30 FPS for frame rates 44 FPS to 30 FPS, and so on."



HMMM,i think you may be right then because as you say fraps only reports the front buffer output with vsync on/off triplebuffering combinations.And it makes more sense that the frame rate is an integer of the refresh rate.I stand corrected :banana: .Funny how NONE of these articles have cottoned onto this,They obviously use fraps and quote the graphics card fps output like i was doing rather than the actual monitor output .I apologise for my ignorance again

 

No because V-sync adds delay on my mouse and it pisses me off.

 

NP.

Most people merely assume vsync locks your FPS to your refresh rate - its a whole lot more complicated than that and FRAPS merely reports completed frames rendered by the card, not frames actually sent to the screen - hence the discrepancy. Its how FRAPS works, and how you can take screen shots etc so its no biggie. But it can lead to a strange illusion that you're getting lots of lag, even though your frame rate appears to be reasonable.

If triple-buffering merely made you output whatever frames you'd get with vsync off, there'd be no vertical syncronisation happening.

Hence why triple buffering ONLY makes a difference when vsync is on.

However, if its a case that you play [multi player] FPS games, and you constantly have FPS < refresh rate, I'd personally turn both off, as the input lag get get really annoying when you need to react quickly.

In slower paced RPG / MMO / Strategy games, it works a treat.

 

:nerd:

 

vert sync at half speed

I prefer vert sync as well, because I really hate tearing.

I mostly run train simulations like Trainz and EEP (rather popular game in Germany).

As long as the frame rate would be higher than the monitor's refresh rate EEP works fine with vert sync; but when the frame rate drops below 60 fps the game again and again judders heavily.

Trainz has got icluded the option to run vert sync at full speed (e. g. 60 Hz) or at half speed (30 Hz respectively) which works fine.

I would appreciate very much such a function as a new option in D3DOverrider. It would be great if users could select full speed, half speed or even one third speed (in cases of monitor's speed > 60 Hz).

Or is there probably another tool available with that function already included?

 

Heizer - those options would be an excellent idea. Theyd help reduce the effect of sudden drops in frame rate and would be very advantageous for games where 60+ fps isnt a requirement for decent gameplay.

 

ehh i have been deciding between
1) No vsync at all
2)vsync+ triple buffer

Tested in badcompany 2 multiplayer in Isla incenta

i was checkign the fps on without vsync an it never really dropped before 60 unless something huge happened in which case it would go to like 50

with vsync + triple buffer it was capped at 60 and smooth but the fps would go down a but lower aswell like 55 to 49 ish even when nothing major happened such as a gunfight

so should i just vsync it with tri buffer or no?

 

Whatever you prefer, its for you to decide what you like best.