XP32 and XP64 patchscript for FireGL and FirePRO (driver 8.44 and higher)

Discussion in 'RivaTuner Advanced Discussion forum' started by gellmar, Oct 3, 2008.

  1. Bluefirexp

    Bluefirexp Master Guru

    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    2x Gainward GTX460 GS 2GB
    Simply not true - please don't give statements without having experience.
    3ds Max is overall about 3 times faster in framerates with softmodded firegl V7700 versus Radeon HD3870. And it's about 10 times faster when it comes to wireframe speed. Check the forum for the benchmarks.
     
  2. Maryus3D

    Maryus3D Active Member

    Messages:
    97
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Zotac GTX 285
    I checked my self and all I can see is just SpecViewPerf. Thats is not a good benchmark. Let's test with real world scene in Max just like we did in maya with the bike and island :).
     
  3. loklo3d

    loklo3d Member

    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Real FirePro v4800 1gb
    I've got the chance to buy a firegl v3700 for $35, that's why I'm asking. But if it's not any faster than my stock 4870, then it's not worth it. I still can't get FirePro drivers working for my 4870 on vista 64... tried a flash of bios (Using RBE/WinFlash), but I think I need a proper 8750 bios. I don't have time this week or next to do anymore testing, as work deadlines are encroaching on my personal bubble. Then in about 2 1/2 weeks I'm going under the knife for major surgery, so I won't be too active in October.
    in theory, the FireGL/Pro drivers are faster because they are multi-threaded, whereas radeon drivers are not multi-threaded (plus the other benefits). I know OpenGL is crap in Max. But FireGL is just a name...
     
  4. n4d444

    n4d444 Active Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    8800GT@FX3700
    Sorry I don't have any real performance numbers at this time. I am just in the process of benching and I am thinking of opening up a new thread where we would all post benchmarks of our softmods in different programs.
    I am just taking screenshots of Maxtreme vs D3D performance difference and I can tell you I found some interesting things.
    I plan to test with 3ds max 2008, 2009, 2010 (all x64) with different graphic cards:
    8600GT/FX540, 8800GT/FX1700, HD3870/V7700 (mby I'll throw in an x1950gt).
    This is gonna take some time as I really want to be very detailed with a lot of different COMPLEX scenes.

    @Bluefirexp
    I know what you are talking about and sorry I just don't trust bmark at all. The scenes that bmark uses for testing are way too simple and in my opinion don't really represent what we do every day. I'll be testing scenes that have in between 500,000 to 5,000,000 polys and I think these scenes will give us better results. Sorry but a simple terrain with a couple of teapots or just a lot of teapots just isn't a good benchmark for me. BTW I have at my disposal a couple for nvidia/ati cards.
     

  5. loklo3d

    loklo3d Member

    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Real FirePro v4800 1gb
    yes please - real world performance benchmarks.

    I don't know about the others, but I know Max chokes when there are lots of objects inside lots of groups.

    architectural example - windows, with two glass panes, outer casing and inner casing - grouped, then instanced dozens of times x 8+ different types/sizes of windows, plus other details that would be instanced all over a big apartment complex for instance; groups inside of groups inside of groups, etc. Typically less than 200K polys, but enough to choke a quadro 4500fx (two+ years ago with Max 9) on a dual-dual opteron.

    poly count doesn't affect things the way we assume. My HD3450, which I bought for about $40, can smoothly throw around 7+ million polys in only a couple hundred objects in a 32b system. give my 4870 a scene with 3 million, and ~20k objects, and it's laying on the ground in a puddle of blood.

    If I had a heavy architectural scene I could share, I would. maybe turbosquid et. al. has something for free?
     
  6. n4d444

    n4d444 Active Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    8800GT@FX3700
    I will try to do my best with testing please just be patient. Yea I have seen all kind of mixed results. But I just wanted to tell you this.
    I just put in my 3870. After the softmod with 8.603 driver under XP x64 it runs Spewcview x86 as a real V7700 but x64 version runs slow like a 3870.
    I tested 3ds max 2008 x86 and x64 with regular catalist drivers 9.7 and with these softmodded 8.603. There is no difference at all in 3 scenes that I tested. Not in shade, not in wire, not in shade+wire not with some advanced shaders/materials, just no difference at all. I was testing with 3ds max D3D driver.

    When testing the nvidia softmod I noticed that Maxtreme behaves a bit different than maxs regular D3D driver. Maxtreme is a bit faster in pure shade/shade+wire/wire but to my surprise it was slower (about 50-60%) with some advanced shaders.

    @loklo3d
    Yes I know what you mean that some scenes are just slow no matter what GPU you are running. I will try my best at benching with what I have and I will post a lot of screenshots so you can make your own mind about it. A lot of those slowdowns are probably max/CPU related and have nothing to do with the GPU.

    If anyone has some large/complex scenes that they want to share I would be glad to bench them on my cards. You are also welcome for any suggestions. Oh yes I will also try the ATI Maximum (OpenGL) driver with 3dsmax 9.

    @Bluefirexp
    What windows version, driver version do you use? What max version? x86/x64? I need to find bmark again and I'll test with it again then report back.

    =================================================
    Video Card: HD3870@V7700
    Display Type: 22" 1680x1050
    File Name | FPS
    =================================================
    4viewports.MAX | 103.199
    8direct.MAX | 673.401
    8omni.MAX | 641.026
    8spot.MAX | 609.756
    blitting.MAX | 1129.09
    dualplanes.MAX | 1239.03
    geometry1.MAX | 600.0
    geometry2.MAX | 309.598
    multitex.MAX | 3.40611
    rasterize.MAX | 735.294
    textured1.MAX | 686.185
    textured2.MAX | 332.226
    textured3.MAX | 260.146
    transpar.MAX | 381.098
    wireframe1.MAX | 27.2331
    wireframe2.MAX | 27.0416

    Comp High: 240.219
    Comp Low: 246.039

    I don't have 3dsmax4 so I am missing textures but the wireframe benches clearly show my wire is slow. What am I doing wrong?
    What driver/patchscript/windows/3dsmax did you use?
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2009
  7. n4d444

    n4d444 Active Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    8800GT@FX3700
    After banging my head for a day I finaly found what accelerates the antique bmark4.

    It's not the softmodding but the "Display All Triangle Edges" setting that accelerates bmark4, which btw slows down every other scene I tried.

    Here are comparisons using bmark4 inside 3ds max 2008 with D3D and "Display All Triangle Edges" enabled:

    =================================================
    Video Card: ATI 3870 Cataliyst 9.9
    Display Type: 1680x1050
    File Name | FPS
    =================================================
    4viewports.MAX | 220.264
    8direct.MAX | 711.744
    8omni.MAX | 709.22
    8spot.MAX | 711.744
    blitting.MAX | 1730.1
    dualplanes.MAX | 1807.23
    geometry1.MAX | 600.0
    geometry2.MAX | 384.123
    multitex.MAX | 2.07121
    rasterize.MAX | 940.734
    textured1.MAX | 905.797
    textured2.MAX | 360.685
    textured3.MAX | 329.815
    transpar.MAX | 432.526
    wireframe1.MAX | 295.276
    wireframe2.MAX | 160.0


    Comp High: 409.997
    Comp Low: 354.934



    =================================================
    Video Card: 3870@V7700-SCHOKO-XP-x64-FireGL_8.453.1.6_DELL
    Display Type: 1680x1050
    File Name | FPS
    =================================================
    4viewports.MAX | 200.0
    8direct.MAX | 711.744
    8omni.MAX | 709.22
    8spot.MAX | 709.22
    blitting.MAX | 1794.26
    dualplanes.MAX | 1920.0
    geometry1.MAX | 600.0
    geometry2.MAX | 309.917
    multitex.MAX | 2.04278
    rasterize.MAX | 927.644
    textured1.MAX | 941.029
    textured2.MAX | 365.631
    textured3.MAX | 319.898
    transpar.MAX | 432.526
    wireframe1.MAX | 300.0
    wireframe2.MAX | 154.879


    Comp High: 399.131
    Comp Low: 353.055

    Btw I confirmed the softmodd working using specview 10 x86 and x64 it is showing some beautiful benching numbers like the real V7700.
    Looks like FireGL doesn't accelerate D3D 3ds max :bang:
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2009
  8. CADCAT

    CADCAT Master Guru

    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Mobility HD5870 1GB GDDR5
    Sorry, but I don't understand why D3D applications should run faster with FireGL?? I think there is no need for such a card in your situation..

    @GellmaR

    r u working on something right now?? I have currently no idea in what direction this will go.. (bios mod??)

    Also I'm wondering if any of the mods (including Schoko's) work outside of SPEC ViewPerf, as no one tested in real applications... (except for D3D tests which are useless in my oppinion..)

    Maybe we should think about some real application tests (maybe I could do CATIA V5 and SolidWorks)..
     
  9. n4d444

    n4d444 Active Member

    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    8800GT@FX3700
    @CADCAT

    Yes of course D3D testing is useless. I just proved it cos Bluefirexp was convinced that FireGL accelerated 3ds max in D3D (OpenGL/Maximum driver is history).
    I think it would realy be helpfull for everyone if you could try out different OpenGL apps and take a few screenshot showing viewport performance before/after the mod.

    I can just say that I was surprised when I run Maya 2009 x64 and the softmodded card was only a bit faster than the Radeon counterpart. I tested it with Maryus3D bike scene (sry no screenshots as this time).

    @loklo3d

    Link to bmark4: http://rapidshare.com/files/3108339/bmark4.rar
    I don't believe I had any trouble with ATI+3ds max mby some (I can't realy remember). You should just be using latest WHQL drivers. Probably the problems you get are max related. I had trouble with vray proxies in the case where vray couldn't load them cos I switched their location on HDD and then my scene would start to disappear if I zoomed (It took me a while to figure it out).
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2009
  10. loklo3d

    loklo3d Member

    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Real FirePro v4800 1gb
    @n4d444 - what's the bmark4 bench?? Is there a place I can get it and test with my card? I googled, but didn't see anything very relevant.

    There might not be much of a performance gain with FireGL, but in theory, are the displays better? They keep touting display precision, etc... - I often have some weird looking geometry in my scenes - like they are inside out (but it's not a normals thing), or the wrong thing displaying in front of another, etc. It wastes my time, cause then I have to go check and make sure.
     

  11. terrablader

    terrablader Master Guru

    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    HD4870,HD2900XT,HD4350
    lokol3d i sent you a pm thanks.
     
  12. casebuyer

    casebuyer Active Member

    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    HIS 3870 IceQ 3 DDR4 512
    4870 is moddable under xp 32 some user claimed in a forum

    Noone replied yet which cards are moddable
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2009
  13. lestatto

    lestatto Member

    Messages:
    19
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Zotac GTX 470
    Actually FireGL is certified, so it's 100% accurate and typically WYSIWYG when it comes to CAD (assuming you have proper display, not some low-budget LCD). Glitches can happen only when card, or should I say driver is modded, or else - when you have true Fire series card without certified driver (certain apps, like AutoCAD are very sensitive on this point)
     
  14. Bluefirexp

    Bluefirexp Master Guru

    Messages:
    596
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    2x Gainward GTX460 GS 2GB
    Tested Wesleys mod and it doesn't work on a 4770 in Windows 7 64bit. I added the DeviceID, entered testsigning but still this driver doesn't recognize that card. Maybe the mod is case sensitive for 4800 series cards only...
     
  15. CADCAT

    CADCAT Master Guru

    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Mobility HD5870 1GB GDDR5
    There is no fully working mod for 4xxx series, if it works then only in 32bit SpecView (don't know about real applications..). But what is a CAD machine with 3GB of ram? Nothing, right ;)
     

  16. Pete3d

    Pete3d Member

    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 4870 1GB@V8700
    @cad

    as far as i tested there is SO FAR working mod for 32 bit applications like Maya.

    I tested the early 32 bit drivers and saw around 30 percent increase in performance back then not only in SpecView but also REAL WORLD APP like the one is used. Maya 32bit.

    Its sad, that there is still a prob with getting the 64 bit performance working in REAL WORLD APP. So far the patched drivers seem to work in ViewSpec ONLY!!! :bang:
     
  17. anjoc100

    anjoc100 Member

    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    HD3870@V7700,8.451.1.3x32
    any news for FireGl?????
     
  18. juodvarnis

    juodvarnis Member

    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    mobility radeon hd 5650
    guys, any vista64 softmod step by step anywhere? :) ofcourse if it's possible to have softfiregl on vista :) i read this thread but maybe not so intently :)

    oh, it's still in progress by gellmar. good luck!
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2009
  19. CADCAT

    CADCAT Master Guru

    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Mobility HD5870 1GB GDDR5
    As my boss came to me asking for a faster graphics card (atm HD3870 @ FireGL) I did a test on my Laptop to check the CATIA V5 performance with the 8.633 driver by GellmaR and here are the results:

    Setup:

    C2D 2Ghz
    HD2700(2600XT) 256MB GDDR3
    4GB DDR2-667
    CATIA V5R19SP5
    Windows XP Professional X64
    Catalyst 9.9/FireGL 8.453.1.6/FirePro 8.633

    I took a car assembly from 3dcontentcentral.com and testet with auto rotation feature of CATIA..

    The performance is determined by FRAPS.. GPU Workload determined by Everest..

    Catalyst 9.9 - 3 FPS (CPU Load 50%, GPU Load 0%) - something went wrong
    Catalyst 9.9 - 20-21 FPS (CPU Load 50%, GPU Load 45%) - second test after reboot
    FireGL 8.453.1.6 - 19 FPS (CPU Load 50%, GPU Load 55%)
    FirePro 8.633 - 20FPS (CPU Load 50%, GPU Load 47%)

    Next step:

    Buy HD4890 2GB and test again (next week) ;)

    Greetings
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
  20. CADCAT

    CADCAT Master Guru

    Messages:
    232
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Mobility HD5870 1GB GDDR5
    Hi, just did another test with Catalyst 9.9 under Windows 7 X64 but with a lower ServicePack (CATIA V5R19SP3) with the following results:

    Catalyst 9.9 - 14 FPS (CPU Load 55-60%, GPU Load 35%)

    Now I'm a little confused, maybe there was an issue with the Catalyst driver on my XP 64 installation? (no hardware acceleration)

    OK another update - Wesley8 V7700 Mod (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YHBZRZUS) with my HD2700:

    FirePro 8.633 - 19 FPS (CPU Load 55-60%, GPU Load 44%)

    So in conclusion, 14 FPS with Catalyst vs 19 FPS with FireGL/FirePro is not much different, maybe I have to get me a real FireGL V5600 to find out what score a working mod brings.. If there is someone with such a card an CATIA V5 please contact me..
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009

Share This Page