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XP32 and XP64 patchscript for FireGL and FirePRO (driver 8.44 and higher)

Discussion in 'RivaTuner Advanced Discussion forum' started by gellmar, Oct 3, 2008.

  1. CADCAT

    CADCAT Master Guru

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  2. Samiam

    Samiam Member Guru

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    OpenGL games are for the most part using the same graphic hardware calls as DX. Whereas "pro"features like OGL HW overlays are only used in pro apps.

    3D apps don't really need to use OpenGL or "pro" features as Max demonstrates. All Windows based 3D apps could be using DX. The problem is Linux and such use OpenGL. I really hope Autodesk stops requiring "pro" features and kills the "pro" 3d card market.

    There's no real advantage to 3D artists but the card makers support app development just to sell "pro" cards and the engineers making drivers often work closely with card makers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2009
  3. snuggles0220

    snuggles0220 Active Member

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    Yes it is a pain, but I don't think droping OpenGL is the answer. Only windows OS's use DX. Thanks to vista OpenGL now has to run threw DX (filtering out 10% of the performance with it, thanks Microsoft). That is bull****! If Linux and/or OSX had better app compatibility, I would stop using windows in an instant (Because, their only OpenGL, game cards run just like pro cards, for those who don't know).

    It would be nice if Autodesk made their products work with whatever graphics language the user chooses like with Max (Not that Autodesk did that it was all Discreet's work), but I really don't see that happening.

    As for the the "pro" features, yes it would be nice to see thoughts go away but pro cards are marketed for companies, and spending 1k-3k on a card is a drop in the bucket. There is a smaller market for pro cards then gaming cards so they charge more, because they sell less of them. The pro features are just in the drivers but it takes time for the company's to develop them, and your average computer user doesn't need them, so they sell it as a separate package, at a higher price (again they sell less of them) so they break even (or hit whatever profit margin their shooting for).

    With all that being said, people (especially us computer nerds, and really Gellmar; I know nothing about reverse engineering) will always find away around these problems (unless AMD starts physically locking there cards....:bang:)

    Sorry this got a bit of off topic.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2009
  4. khogan112

    khogan112 Member Guru

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    Pro cards and pro applications.

    OK, here are a few software license prices :

    Autodesk Alias - 3,000 USD :
    http://www.gradware.com/product/view/967273

    Pro/Engineer - 5,000 USD, if you buy the whole pack you pay 30,000 USD :
    http://store.eacpds.com/Pro-ENGINEER

    CATIA : 15,000 USD , Solidworks : a few thousand USD, Factory CAD, 5 to 10,000 USD etc.

    CATIA is developed by Dassault, the French aeroplane manufacturer. UG NX is developed by Siemens, Bentley, Boeing etc are other software providers.

    Except AutoCAD, all of those software was developed for those companies' own internal use. When these companies no longer want to maintain those software, Autodesk buys and maintains them.

    I had met with the director of one of those professional packages. That company was KraussMaffei - the German plastic injection machine giant. First they had developed that software for thir internal use, and then later sold to a few customers. then they killed the software project and sent the team to different parts of the company. However, they had to maintain those products employed in the customers : so they were searching for a firm to take the product over. Very hard situation indeed.

    Now, these software is expensive, very very expensive.

    OK, if you ask that much money for a licence, then you prefer it to run on a expensive computer, so that the price of your software does not look too expensive.

    If you produce a pro card, you prefer it to run better on pro applications which are very very expensive so that you can ask 3,000 USD for a VGA card.

    No matter which application we are talking of, they all followed this path. And they have very high maintanence cost on their user base.

    therefore, the applications are expensive and the hardware it runs on has to be expensive too.
     

  5. Samiam

    Samiam Member Guru

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    The price of the software isn't justified by the price of the hardware. Maybe back in the days of SGI workstations when GPUs were in their infancy and most games were still 2D. But not anymore.

    Back then Maya/SI used to cost about $15K/seat to run on an $80K SGI workstation, and you had to buy an SGI becasue PC and Mac simply couldn't do 3D. There was almost no accelerated 3D hardware. So the 3D market was mostly high end: engineering/film/commercial, and very small compared with today. Most games were developed in Photoshop on cheap PC and Macs, and 2D sprites were state of the art.

    Now we have Maya/Max/SI around the $5K mark, running on $2-3K workstations without GPU. Fast GPU are common as dirt, and the highend "pro" hardware is exactly the same as the highend game hardware.

    In most of the Maya/Max/SI market the $ spent on hardware seriously reduces $ spent elsewhere in development. $3K GPU per seat x30 equals the price of a programmer dedicated to providing additional support or tools, which can make the difference between a feature and a cut. For a small business designing custom lathed parts, toys or whatever, a $3K investment is significant.

    It's just economically inefficient to continue pushing "pro" cards that drain resources from both the 3D application developers and their developers/customers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2009
  6. NormanBates

    NormanBates Master Guru

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    Maya complete costs $2K, Maya unlimited costs $5K

    for comparison, adobe CS4 costs around $1.5K for the specific packages, $2.5K for the master collection

    in any case, no matter how much you spend on software, you should still care how much you spend on hardware
     
  7. NormanBates

    NormanBates Master Guru

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    interesting developments in this thread:
    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?p=3172170

    we've been testing real world viewport performance (i.e. not SPECanything) of several cards, and so far we've found this:

    5 to 14 fps on unmodded 9800gtx
    5 to 14 fps on modded 3870
    7 to 18 fps on modded 4670
    6 to 17 fps on unmodded 4670 (I'd say mod difference is rounding error)
    15 to 22 fps on unmodded 4870
     
  8. Pete3d

    Pete3d Member

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    Any progress on x64 bit

    Hi guys,

    Any progress in the area of getting the gellmar patch working under x64bit applications correctly?

    So far only 32bit applications benefit from the driver patch. :nerd:
     
  9. Maryus3D

    Maryus3D Active Member

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    For thoes who has modded cards please test with this scene.

    http://rapidshare.com/files/245597508/mayascene2.7z

    This scene is a complex island. Just open with maya go to Display\Head up Display\Frame rate. On the lower-ritght corner the fps should apear and then press play.

    We'v got something like this:

    7.1 to 12.3 on a "real" FirePro V5700, Driver 8.603, E8400@3GHz
    5.5 to 8.7 fps on 4670 unmodded cat 9.5, Q6600@3GHz
    5.9 to 9.5 fps on 3870 firepromod 8.603, Q6600@3GHz
    6.0 to 9.7 fps on 4670 firepromod 8.603, Q6600@3GHz
    10.8 to 15.6 fps on Quadro FX580 E8400@3GHz
    6 to 8,7 fps on 9800GTX Q6600@2,4

    virtualex get 15 to 22 bot he doesn't play it just zooming in and out. If you du that zoom out untill you see the volcano and the samll island then tell us what fps do you get.

    Also test with this scene it you want is a smooth mesh poly bike not that complex. I'v got 12 fps when I'm rotating and zooming with my 9800GTX, Q6600@2,4 win7 x64 build 7201, 185,85 driver.

    http://rapidshare.com/files/245678544/bike.rar


    EDIT: For more info go here http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=296631&page=2 :).
     
  10. gellmar

    gellmar Member Guru

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    Pete3d,

    currently I have a large project in the run, so I will continue my research in a week. Be patient, I need it even more than you do ;)

    Regards,
    gellmaR
     

  11. Pete3d

    Pete3d Member

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    Hi gellmar,

    thanks for response. I am just starting with my main animation project for my graduation. My maya scenes are going to be heavy... I will need every frame increase. :nerd:

    So far I could see an improvement on 32bit by up to 30 percent with modded drivers. I hope you will be able to get the drivers runnig nice on 64bit apps, like u already did with 32bit.

    Anyway, good luck with ur current project. Bring this baby finished first and then come back to patching.


    cheers,
    Pete3d
     
  12. casebuyer

    casebuyer Active Member

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    so which mod or script we will use for 3870 is there any stable one
     
  13. CADCAT

    CADCAT Master Guru

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    Yes you can use Gellmar or Schoko script with 8.453.1.6 Dell driver for XP64 and Gellmars new script with 8.603 driver for XP32..
     
  14. ForgedReality

    ForgedReality Master Guru

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    Okay, I'm new to this. Please, someone sum it up for me, if it's possible:

    4870x2, Driver 8.62 (cat 9.6), XP Pro x32

    Can/has it been modded to support FirePro?
     
  15. NormanBates

    NormanBates Master Guru

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    yes, use wesley's driver
     

  16. casebuyer

    casebuyer Active Member

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    I installed FirePro_8.603_XP32_MOD_V7700.rar
    riva tuner gave unsupported warning

    maybe I should try gellmar script
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2009
  17. loafer87gt

    loafer87gt Member

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    Hi All,

    Just wondering, is there any modded drivers for Vista 64? I am thinking about picking up a 4870 as my 8800GTX benchmarks appear absolutely dismal compared to your modded Radeons.

    1280x1024,
    3dsmax-04, 11.11,
    catia-02, 15.53,
    ensight-03, 19.11,
    maya-02, 40.74,
    proe-04, 14.74,
    sw-01, 22.07,
    tcvis-01, 4.61,
    ugnx-01, 5.26,

    Also, is there a specific kind of 4870 that I have to look for, or will any 4870 / 4890 card suffice.

    Many thanks!

    J
     
  18. CADCAT

    CADCAT Master Guru

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    I think every 1/2/3/4xxx card (maybe also older cards but I don't know) works with the latest patch script, but at the moment only on XP 32bit.. GellmaR is working on XP 64bit and maybe Windows 7 ;) If you use XP 64 you can still take the old patchscript from Schoko or GellmaR, but this one (or rather the old driver) can handle only cards up to HD3870..
     
  19. Samiam

    Samiam Member Guru

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    Also, only with drivers up to 8.463.xx which have some bugs.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  20. loafer87gt

    loafer87gt Member

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    Thanks guys. What about Vista64 - is it a lost cause? Currently I have a dual boot XP 32 / Vista 64 setup. I do most of my 3d modelling and rendering under the 64 bit OS.
     

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