X-Fi CMSS-3D Headphone

Discussion in 'Soundcards, Speakers HiFI & File formats' started by king-dubs, Oct 1, 2007.

  1. BOYDIE-NI

    BOYDIE-NI Master Guru

    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    18
    GPU:
    GTX 1660 6GB
  2. king-dubs

    king-dubs Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,386
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    TITAN X (Pascal) + X34
    Nothing on the site stated that. And I did indeed hear full surround sound in both CS:S and CoD2.
     
  3. ROBSCIX

    ROBSCIX Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    16,241
    Likes Received:
    8
    GPU:
    22" LCD on GTX260 C216
    There is CMSS3D and CMSS for Headphones.

    CMSS3D take a 2 channel signal and upmixes it. Good for MP3 etc, seen on Audigy series cards.

    CMSS for headphones is a surround modeling algorithm to model surround info on headphones. Seen on X-fi cards and the Prelude.
     
  4. Ultraq

    Ultraq Master Guru

    Messages:
    848
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    GeForce 6800GT AGP
    When I first got my X-Fi I asked myself the exact same questions: what's the 'correct' way to get CMSS for headphones to work?

    I've found that the way that king-dubs has it (Windows: 5.1, Audio Console: Headphones + CMSS), in addition to fooling games into thinking I have a 5.1 or any surround setup, is what works for me.

    When the sound source is only stereo (that is, Windows: headphones, Audio Console: Headphones + CMSS, games/apps: headphones) then CMSS doesn't really do much but give the feeling that I'm in a larger, more echo-filled, room.
     

  5. Osuperman

    Osuperman Active Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    ATI 5850
    Hi everyone

    I've been reading the Guru3D boards for a while now, but finally plucked up the courage to join as I thought this thread was really interesting! I too have felt the CMSS3D function of my X-fi card sounded really pretty terrible... When I read the above posts I felt so hopeful that all along I had been doing it wrong, but alas, it seems Grahf is correct: I found this description from Vista...

    [​IMG]

    It looks like CMSS3D is supposed to sound like that :( which to my ears is too echoed and rather unpleasant... When using headphones I now play all my games in basic stereo but select 2.1 Speakers from the X-fi control panel, not as engaging as 5.1 (or 7.1) as I personally prefer it to even the headphone mode, which seems overly quiet and not very exciting...

    However, I shall try the method outlined by king-dubs, see if it improved the cmss3d sound and report back. :) Thanks guys!
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  6. BOYDIE-NI

    BOYDIE-NI Master Guru

    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    18
    GPU:
    GTX 1660 6GB
    This is taken right from creative support.

    "It is vital that you set the Audio Console to the speaker configuration you are using. Sound cards generally ignore the in-game speaker setting and only refer to the setting in the Audio Console and other device-specific configuration applications."

    "If you only have two speakers or headphones connected,but you have a 5.1 configuration selected in this menu, then guess what's going to happen? Audio meant for the centre or rear speakers will be lost. When you select headphones or 2/2.1 speaker mode, the sound card will do a great job of 3D positioning for your sound system."

    "The X-Fi CMSS-3D button does slightly different things depending on whether you are in two speaker mode, or 5.1/7.1 mode. But the basic advice is to make sure it's set to ON, particularly in a stereo mode (either 2/2.1 or Headphones).

    Without X-Fi CMSS-3D, you will not get that great 3D audio experience on your headphones or stereo speakers."


    Web-http://www.soundblaster.com/Applications/article.asp?articleID=71545&categoryID=13
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  7. Osuperman

    Osuperman Active Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    ATI 5850

    I've been doing some testing and I don't think that's true... using headphones, and cmss3d ON, and headphone mode set to ON within creative control panel... if I then configure my speakers in vista I can hear every channel and king-dubs is indeed correct: it sounds MUCH more like a surround environment when using headphones!

    [​IMG]

    I have not tested in any games yet, but even in this simple test I do hear all 7 channels, they are not lost.

    EDIT: With Crystalizer turned ON (set to around 50%), even music sounds a lot better when played through this mode (7.1 windows speaker setup + Headphone mode in creative console). Particularly soundtracks, but even songs sound more realistically surround, it seems to open up the effect of rear speakers a lot more, providing a more realistic and natural surround balance.

    I realise music isn't supposed to be played through this mode, but I have no games installed just now. These are just my initial findings... but perhaps someone else could try this out and see what they think? I guess this part will be down to an invididuals preference, but when I'm at my PC I use headphones to hear my music most days.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  8. Thug

    Thug Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,200
    Likes Received:
    9
    GPU:
    RTX 3080
    I too have tested this in vista and found it to work great. I have just had a go of COD2, and believe that it sounds a load clearer, and easier to detect directional sounds.


    MATT
     
  9. Fedorov

    Fedorov Member Guru

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Inno3D iChill GTX-1070 X4
    Thanks to a friend who just pointed me to this thread as I have been using CMSS-3D for quite a while now with perfect positional sound.

    The last few posts are correct - the main thing is that in the Vista speaker setup screenshot in the post above I have it set to Stereo - because is what my headphones are... STEREO.

    Then in the game, like CoD2 I choose to use EAX3 surround sound and it works perfect and has done for the past 10 months for me on Vists - and on XP before that. Hope this helps.

    I also have Crystalizer turned ON default settings to make the sounds even crisper/clearer in the game.
     
  10. Kakihara

    Kakihara Active Member

    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX780 SC ACX (SLI)
    I only have standard headphones and it sounds like you say...
    but I discovered one thing this CMSS is good for and for everyone with or without 5.1 "headphones" or speakers !

    CAR VIDEOS
    like WRC rally, drag racing, nascar, whatever

    I'm a car fan and CMSS has the ncie feature of making the low frequencies (bass) more realistic than with the standard sound settings.
    I recorded myself the exhaust of a race car at the nurburging and when I came back home and listened it sounded lame...all the "grunt" (not sure of the word) of the engine just wasn't catched by the mic.

    Oh and thanks a lot for the tips I never tried to use anything else than stereo-headphones with cmss.
     

  11. PixelPerfect

    PixelPerfect Member Guru

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    GTX 285
    Thats absolutely correct and I agree to 100 % that it sounds like crap if I set to only headphones in every instance.

    The only place to set headphones is in the Creative CP and in windows it must be set to 5.1/7.1 or else you only get stereo sound for the card to upmix and you lose all the other channels!

    Just do a search on creatives forum for CMSS3D and you see that this is the only way to get surround sound in games and it makes perfectly sens to me :)

    Or else as I said it will ONLY upmix stereo sound!
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2007
  12. BOYDIE-NI

    BOYDIE-NI Master Guru

    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    18
    GPU:
    GTX 1660 6GB
    You can't send a 5.1 signal to out-put from a stereo source,5 in to 2 does not go.Its very basic, cmss-3d is just a fancy up mix of a STEREO signal.If you set windows to 5.1 in game you lose the centre and rear VIRTUAL sounds.Creative Audio console over rides any windows settings in app's regardless of what other setting have changed.
     
  13. Osuperman

    Osuperman Active Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    ATI 5850
    I'm sorry but that's not correct according to the vista speaker set up application... You don't lose any channels, you still hear them, and they DO sound better! It seems with CMSS3D these extra channels are mixed into the headphones and you gain a greater sourround realism, seriously, give it a shot!

    Here is what I have done:

    Under Windows Vista speaker set-up, I choose 7.1 speakers, now within the Creative Console set to 2.1 speakers, when you play the "test" singal, notice that the Creative console speakers change automiatically to 7.1, then jump back to 2.1 after the test signlas has played (keep the creative console open and watch it!).

    However, with the Headphones option set in creative console this doesn't happen when you play the test signal, indicating to me that the Headphone option downmixes all 7.1 channels into stereo...

    Now, with CMSS3D turned ON during this test, the surround field sounds FAR more "suround" and natural but when it's off it goes completely FLAT (when playing the test signal).

    I would honestly reccommend you try this out for yourself!!! king-dubs you are a genius!!
     
  14. king-dubs

    king-dubs Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,386
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    TITAN X (Pascal) + X34
    That's because you forgot to uncheck "Synchronize with Windows Control Panel". Please read my previous posts more carefully next time, and don't jump to conclusions.
     
  15. king-dubs

    king-dubs Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,386
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    TITAN X (Pascal) + X34
    This is probably why people criticized that CMSS-3D Headphone sounds like crap, because it does if you don't use 5.1/7.1 signals. Creative should make clearer instructions on setting it up; that would have greatly reduced the amount of criticisms, and probably even gained awards for creating this truly revolutionary technology.
     

  16. PixelPerfect

    PixelPerfect Member Guru

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    GTX 285
    Very well said once again :)

    I for one have read everything about CMSS3D and those 5.1 surround headphones and no audiophile/Pro gamer chose these 5.1 headphones as they all says that the X-fi do a wonderfull job with its CMSS3D and is the the very best you can get when you set it up the CORECT way!

    I have used a Zalman 5.1 and was thinking, okey thats pretty neat but when I got my Xtremegamer and tested the CMSS3D I was totaly blown away and coupled with a nice headphone this is the only way to go. couldent believe how bad my Zalman sounds against this, but its like you say without the proper adjustments it mean nothing. do it right and it blows everything else away and you will never game without it :D
     
  17. king-dubs

    king-dubs Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,386
    Likes Received:
    1
    GPU:
    TITAN X (Pascal) + X34
    That is a common misconception. Creative made CMSS-3D for three different things:
    1. Headphone - turn stereo headphones into 5.1/7.1 ones
    2. 2/2.1 speakers - turn 2/2.1 speakers into surround sound
    3. 5.1/7.1 speakers - "stretches" stereo signals and spread into 6 to 8 individual speakers, turning your stereo MP3's and alike into a fully surround concert.

    The description you saw was for the 3rd one, not for 1st or second.
     
  18. Osuperman

    Osuperman Active Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    ATI 5850
    Watching a stereo movie on Media Center now with these new settings (see above), it's only stereo, but wow what a difference, sounds much, MUCH better! Again the sound is more movie-like and engaging, king-dubs I don't know how to thank you - finally I get to enjoy my soundcard properly!! Pity the film is DREADFUL (The Core). lol
     
  19. The_AC

    The_AC Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,176
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    R9 390X
    How can cmss3d possibly make a bad guy sound like he's behind you, if it's working with a stereo signal?

    Also, I used to have an x-fi, but I trashed it and replaced it with a card that I like better.
     
  20. PixelPerfect

    PixelPerfect Member Guru

    Messages:
    103
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    GTX 285
    You have it setup exactly the way I mean :D

    As we talk about headphones mode the way I set it up seems like the correct one as you then get all the chanels..the card must get multi chanel to mix it for its virtual surround mode as I have tested and others but as you said some dont set it up the right way and then its not to good!
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2007

Share This Page