Would Pirates Have Bought Crysis ?

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Guru3D News, Aug 29, 2008.

  1. Corndog

    Corndog Master Guru

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    Fine. I embezzeled. Either way, it could have been the demo, cause I was still on the beach somewhere. And I couldn't find the demo for download. But, the point of the matter is, there was zero intent of playing it without paying for it and 100% intent of buying it.

    You state the ' reason ' on why some have no moral qualms BECAUSE... yada yada yada, ... again, why is there a reason or excuse when like you stated, it's someone's property? Intellectual or not, isn't it a property of someone else? Besides, I'd much rather embezzle something than to straight up steal the game. Only because I know myself that money is going to the author for them entertaining me.

    Another thing: When you eat somewhere, you don't pay in advance. You eat your food first, then pay. With full intent to pay on my way out. By your definition, that could be embezzlement, right? So, it is no different than what I did. It boils down to one's intent.

    Also, I didn't 'steal' the game with intent to pay for it later. My intent was initially to go out and buy it right away. But only cause I had no ride out there, and I KNEW I was picking it up FOR SURE, might as well get a head start. But like I said, it could have been the demo, only I couldn't find one for download.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2008
  2. bballfreak6

    bballfreak6 Ancient Guru

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    umm read parts of this thread and i thought i would chip in

    don't know why people are arguing about illegal downloads...if you download something illegally, it's stealing, it's wrong, everyone knows that (just being black and white, not going to get into things like downloading to try before you buy etc because that's not the point)

    but i think people are missing the point of this thread, crytek is arguing that piracy is hurting their sales which i think is absolute crap, you make a good product that has value at a good price point and people will buy it, simple as that...and i can tell you right now i have a lot of friends that do pirate games and if it's a game that they can't pirate because of protections etc they simply won't play it, they won't go out and buy the game just because they can't get it by illegal means

    it just sh!ts me that piracy is used as an excuse for companies' poor sales just like video games are blamed for everything that is wrong nowadays
     
  3. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    I don't think you stole anything, I was just going by your stated moral code.

    The fact is, some of us don't believe in IP at all. We don't believe you can own ideas, words, or something that is intangible. This is reinforced with the fact that with software, you CANT own the game, if you read the EULA, they are only licensing their software. Even if you accept IP, when you download and use software without paying, you still aren't stealing it, you are breaking the license agreement. And it can potentially be a copyright violation.

    But, if you look at copyright law, many business break it all the time. Microsfot and Sony are theives by many peoples standards because they infringed on the IP of some company who patented rumble in controllers. Yet, they settle their stuff in court. They aren't jailed treated as criminals and threatened with many years of prison time.

    To treat the equal equally and the unequal unequally, one must either say MS/Sony are criminals and should be procecuted, or the entire copyright law system is bunk.
     
  4. Corndog

    Corndog Master Guru

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    But does all that make it morally correct? You say it's ideas and or words or other intangible things. BUt what about the hours/ weeks/ months/ years invested, all the people working, and all the MONEY invested in compiling and organizing all those ideas; those intangible things. Is money intangible? Since to a lot of people time = money, we can try and be down to earth and admit that some aspect of the game's creation may be intangible, but it takes tangible resources to be invested to actually be able to 'use' those intangible things.
    So, in the end, yes, in my opinion, those companies stole. Especially if they already knew what the law on that is. Law or not though, just KNOWING (because everyone does) other people's time, money and other resources are invested into the final product, I don't understand why some, all bullsh*t aside, cannot clearly see what they are doing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2008

  5. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    Morals are quite subject and they differ from person to person. You may find it morally incorrect, while others may feel it is fine.

    About the 'stuff invested' you would have be more specific to what sort of 'IP' you are talking about.

    Money is tangible, even if it is in a bank. It is tender that is created by law for the purpose of common currency for trade. That is not IP.

    I have no problem if you feel that these companies are stealing and that these downloaders are stealing, there is no fault in that logic. As long as your contention is that you define stealing of IP as recieving IP without paying for it. But if you use that defination, if you walk by someone playing their CD loud enough to hear it, you stole the music (and they don't have a public performance license).
     
  6. Corndog

    Corndog Master Guru

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    To me, that doesn't equate. It's not about receiving. It's about taking. In that scenario I took nothing. I don't have my own copy to play whenever I want and it's not my fault that he was 'giving away ' something he has no right to in the first place. I didn't TAKE anything. That's all him. That comparison is more like if I were to drive by a drive thru theatre to catch a glimpse of the movie. Again, I didn't take a thing. And if you still use that kind of reasoning, well that can really be applied to anything. There couldn't be such things as gifts. But you know that is not what I mean, don't you? In comparison, after I heard the music, and thought ,"Gee, I'll go and download it for free!" Then sure, that I can say is wrong because I am TAKING.
    The intangible things I have already mentioned. Time, the MANY ideas of MANY people and the EFFORT of those people to put all that together to make those intangible ideas useful enough to release as a whole product that we can enjoy. Not to mention, the tangible things like money, and again, time because I think time can be both because time = money. The disks themselves, all the paper needed for manuals and boxes, ink to print everything. The electricy used to power all those computers for the duration of the project. The pure manpower needed in all the different stages of production. All the fuel used to transport the final goods. Even water. But that's just getting needlessly complex. In the end, my point is: To enjoy a PRODUCT you perceive as intangible, many tangible, as well as intangible resources were used. All of which was payed for by the developers and NONE of which was payed for by the pirate. OTHER PEOPLE'S resources were INVESTED into making the final USEFUL product.

    And about : "Morals are quite subject and they differ from person to person. You may find it morally incorrect, while others may feel it is fine."

    There's such thing as having morals or not having morals. For the people that fail to see such an easy thing, I would say have no morals. That's why I am worried.

    I agree that different people have varying moral standards, but stealing is just stealing. And if in their morals stealing doesn't equate to being wrong, than, to me, you don't have your morals straight. I kinda see it like this:

    There is a couple. One of them cheats. Let's say the girl. So the guy confronts the girl about it. And when he does, she admits it saying, "yea, but if you weren't working so much and were actually here for me, I wouldn't have felt lonely therefor never have felt the need to get that affection somewhere else!" Examine and think about that situation and what was said. The girl is basically trying to excuse herself of her wrong doing by justifying 'why' it was okay for her to do so. Just like the current topic, in this scenario, there is no RIGHT, no matter how you look at it, and no matter the "reasons" used to 'justify' it. Morally, she made a wrong decision. To me, that scenario presents the girl to have no morals. Not only for cheating in the first place, but to try and go around everything she can to try and justify her wrong doing. Now let's say after all the drama happens, she calls up one of her girlfriends, and her friend agrees with her, telling her she has every right. That does not excuse her wrong doing just because her and maybe other people are out there that agree with her. Universally, it is considered wrong. All that it says is that those people that agree with her all have the same f*c*ed up mentality and no morals. Why? Because universally, cheating is understood as being wrong. Just like stealing, which by definition, is somewhere along the lines of "taking of ANYTHING which is not 'rightfully' yours."
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2008
  7. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    I am busy right now, so I coudlnt read it all, but if you listening to it the IP holder says thats taking it. According to copyright law, the owner of the IP has the right to setup the license agreement however they want. And they say you don't have license to listen to the music. You have to pay them, if you don't thats taking it from them. It is not the data or the 1's and 0's its the auditory sounds that they have copyrighted.

    So, you would still be taking it whether you downloaded a copy of the data or listened to it.
     
  8. MOFO64

    MOFO64 Banned

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    pmsl a high end rig huh? who's got one of those like? don't say you or I'll puke.

    A dualcore cpu and a single g-card hardly constitutes high-end these days buddy.

    Try 2x 4870 X2's or SLi/TRi SLi GTX 280's with 4xsata II HDD's in raid0 and a 4ghz+ QUAD.........that would be in the high-end sector.

    Besides....I have a single 8800GT and play crysis on medium to high settings at a resolution of 5040x1050 and get the same fps as you pretty much :)

    How do you explain this?
     
  9. Gromuhl'Djun

    Gromuhl'Djun Ancient Guru

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    WTH? 5040x1050? That's quite a high/strange resolution no? (I've seen that reso a few times in this thread, typo??)

    Anyway, crysis is a good game, worth my 20 Euro's (more enjoyable than Far Cry imho) but it runs like a dog @1650x1080 and very high settings, luckily I've found a nice balance ranging in detail settings from medium to very high (the average would be high, tweaked the cvars) Now it runs pretty good: 35fps most of the time with some dips to the 20's.

    Now I didn't believe the hype and took the game for what it is, a short, fun fps that I probably won't replay that often, but had fun playing and tweaking.
    NEVER believe any hype, because everyone I see here that probably believed it, is disappointed and frustrated with the game.

    C'mon, get over it. Crytek's management have proven to be a bunch of a'holes. They have to live with their heads up their own asses. I don't :p
     
  10. MOFO64

    MOFO64 Banned

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    No typo, I use softTH to span my games across 3 displays. 22" widescreen TFT, 17" crt for left and 19" crt for right. Once you get upto UHD resolutions AA doesn't make any difference (except lower fps) so I run without it. AA kills crysis....end of.

    [​IMG]
     
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  11. kapu

    kapu Ancient Guru

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    YOu can say idiot to mirror when you wake up.



    Dont defend crysis, it runs like crap on high end pcs, end of story (UltraHigh DX10, nothing else matters).
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2008
  12. MOFO64

    MOFO64 Banned

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    I'm sure others will disagree with you mate. Everyone who uses XP for a start.

    This HIGH-END nonsense is really getting silly. HIGH-END means exactly that.....the higher end.

    You run a SINGLE gpu solution and think you are HIGH-END???????

    WTF is KINGPIN and HIPRO5 (aswell as others) using then? HYPER-END? Or wait a minute.....perhaps ULTRA-END? yes that's it.......they're all BEYOND-END!

    In this day of sli/tri-sli/quad-sli etc you think a 4870 is HIGH-END :puke2:

    Sorry to burst your bubble and all, but just 'cos your new gpu scores 25%-50% more in benchmarks than your old gpu.....that does not mean you've entered the HIGH-END segment.
     
  13. F1refly

    F1refly Ancient Guru

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    i think we reached a point where everyone is repeating themselves.

    but games are an entertainment. you have to pay to be entertained.

    for example. you go to a stripclub, girl wants $10 for you to be entertained, she does a song and she halfarsed it and wasnt very sexy. you didnt get your moneys worth you feel, should it have been free or cheaper? sure but you dont have that control, its part of life and everyone should man up to it.

    otherwise, the strippers would simply stop working there cause they cant make enough money to feed their kids, their drunk boyfriend or pay for their herpes prescriptions

    and some of you say its crap only cause you cant enable very high....would you rather them have lmited the engine to just medium with no way to ever have it look better or what?
    play farcry on very high or crysis on low and its pretty much the same in look and performance.

    for the record, i can play dx10, very high 1280x1024 with 30 fps minimum rate
     
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  14. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    I hate crysis, I honestly think it was probably one of the worst games I've played. I didn't like the story, the game was full of glitches, the multiplayer was terrible.

    Yet the games engine literally did set a whole new bar for video game graphics. You don't hear people comparing graphics to half life 2 or unreal 3 anymore. It set a boundary that was even above the current hardware tech at the time, which pushed hardware developers to further their designs. Hell they even came up with a standard based on Crysis "This PC is Crysis Ready" when was the last time that happened?

    Saying that the gameplay was terrible and explaining why is one thing - just outright saying "the engine was fail" and not backing it up makes you look like an idiot. Also DX10Very high plays just well on my computer average 20-30fps @ 1920x1200 - on hardware that was available at the time.
     
  15. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    indeed.

    I download basically all of the games I only plan on playing in SP but Stalker was a different case. I downloaded the game and eventually I just bought it, even though the illegal copy worked just fine, I just figured "these guys deserve their money, they brought me proper entertainment for several weeks", crysis on the other hand was entertaining for about 3 or 4 hours?!
     

  16. Zareph

    Zareph Ancient Guru

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    I don't see piracy as stealing. Stealing would imply that someone else loses it. Nobody loses what you download, as it's just a copy. And before you say that someone loses on it, think... Most people would only get the games to begin with because they can get them for free (they should make games worth playing to begin with if they expect people to actually buy them, instead of accusing piracy for bad sales), and some are too poor to buy games at any rate. I fit in both categories, so I don't really care what they think... They aren't losing a dime on my downloading.

    About piracy, I'd say it's more like... Copying without permission. Which is bad, but not as much as stealing.


    EDIT: And mofo... A 4870 is considered high-end. Low-end would be something like 9400GT, and mid-range segment is the cards that everyone who wants a cheap gaming PC can afford, like 9600GT (or previously 8600GT).
    You may very well call SLI GTX280 for beyond-end or ultra-end or whatever. It's all high-end, I'm sure even Hilbert would agree (citation needed) ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2008
  17. JimmyFox

    JimmyFox Master Guru

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    I never buy games before I download and play them.
    Problem is, few games of the last 5-6 years are worth of our money.
    Last recent game I bought was Oblivion. After I 've played if for countless hours.

    I also own Painkiller, Hitman contracts, Far Cry, HL2, many many adventures and plenty of others that I believed were worth buying and I wanted to own since they were really good games.

    Anyway, Crysis I wouldn't buy. I downloaded it. But no reason to buy it. Played a few hours and uninstalled it. Overrated and over-bugged.
     
  18. Corndog

    Corndog Master Guru

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    Sounds like with speaches like yours, you are trying to justify pirating. A person justifying a valid purchase and spendature of one's money VS a pirate pirating and stealing of other people's money, or should I say booty.... Hmm toughy, but I'd much rather be the first person. :p
     
  19. Corndog

    Corndog Master Guru

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    It can imply anything you want it to, but the fact is, this is the definition of the word.

    Stealing: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice.

    Meaning, no one has to lose anything physical for it to be stealing (actual physical property or intellectual property). All that needs to be done, is to 'take' something without consent of the owner or without paying the amount it costs.

    You say no one loses what one downloads, so I have to ask ya, what about POTENTIAL sales? What about the cost to produce each *unit*?
    Because for every copy that gets pirated is another copy that gets left on the shelf that had money making potential. But instead it gets stolen (pirated). And no profit was made from that person where as if that person actually bought it, it would have paid for the cost of production + their profit. SO, IMO, at the very least a pirate is stealing the amount of money it took to produce one copy if not the full retail cost.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2008
  20. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    Seriously, tickle me elmo? You thought I was being 100% serious?
     

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