Woman dies in hospital waiting room

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Merton, Jul 1, 2008.

  1. Cybermancer

    Cybermancer Don Quixote

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    LOL

    Never heard that one before, but I think it's true.

    I absolutely agree with you Chouji, regarding the must of getting insured. From my own experience (when you get your bills, you see what it would cost you without insurance) and hearing about the bills from colleagues at work, it's impossible to pay for that yourself.
     
  2. Sparx

    Sparx Maha Guru

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    Agreed, sorry but I had to vent.. I'm quite sick of the idiots in this world.. But yes your right - it's not just America.
     
  3. stromchin

    stromchin Master Guru

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    I'm surprised no one has mentioned the documentary "Sicko" yet, i watched it the other day and I ended up really surprised.
     
  4. Cybermancer

    Cybermancer Don Quixote

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    Never saw it, tbh.
     

  5. blue5

    blue5 Banned

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    **** happens. health care at its finest I suppose.

    "Sicko" was a excellent documentary.
     
  6. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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    Not to stir up commentary(well, maybe) :) but Sicko was a gigantic load of horse crap that has been thoroughly debunked. Michael Moore is an ideologue, not a true "documentary" producer.

    http://sicko.ncpa.org/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuci76qvbnE

    http://www.freedomtalks.org/2007/09/12/john-stossel-debunks-michael-moores-sicko/

    To the other Americans here, believe me, the last thing we want is "universal health care." Taxes go through the roof and the quality of care plummets. Michael Moore is an ignorant liar who wouldn't know the truth if it hit him in his massive posterior.

    One of the ways to fix the problem here is for the government to set up accounts where people can have money deducted from their paychecks before taxes to help pay for health care.

    Also, there must be tort reform. Frivolous malpractice suits and such ilk have a very noticeable impact on the cost of health care.

    This is a great article highlighting what needs to be done.

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/08/03/a_free_market_cure_for_us_healthcare_system/

    Turning over control of our health care to government bureaucrats and having our taxes go through the roof is beyond foolish.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2008
  7. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    I've read obamas plan in regards to an insurance system and I like the idea of insurance. However he proposes "an insurance exchange" bureaucracy to regulate insurance nationwide. The stated justification of the bureaucracy is to insure that private programs are as good as the public programs.

    The problem with this idea is that it is redundant, if the governments program is better than the private programs then wouldn't people chose the government program? Why can't both compete? His plan sounded nice till I got to this point at which it struck me as a power grab. It's not government + free market, it's exclusively government via this mechanism.

    /Having said that, I'm not finished doing my research on Obamas overall plan so there may be a more detailed explanation addressing these concerns elsewhere. I'm currently reading the warren act so that I can understand some of his proposed modifications to labor policy, at which point I'll continue reading the mans plan.

    // also one more point, If this was a governmental system anything like the NY educational system the only difference in what occurred would be that the people involved would not have been fired due to union regulations.
     
  8. The_AC

    The_AC Maha Guru

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    I've always found it interesting how Michael Moore made a movie about how our government should own all the hospitals in the country immediately after he made a movie about how our government doesn't care whether we live or die, and people still take him seriously.
     
  9. MountainLynx

    MountainLynx Master Guru

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    @Classic Satch
    I don't believe the primary purpose of "Sicko" was to show people that Cuba's health care system is better. Clearly, due to the tiered system, it isn't. IIRC, the true point is to show people that their health care insurance providers are not protecting them the way people think they are. Insurance providers make their money by not having to pay out, and I believe there were several examples in the film (I'll agree with you so far as to not call it a true documentary) which show that most insurance providers will do nearly anything to deny or massively delay paying out claims.

    Also, an account that allows people to deduct money from their paycheque before taxes in order to pay for some sort of health care still strikes me as a sort of tax. The user can choose whether or not he or she wants to pay into it, and even how much (as a percentage, hopefully), but it's still a tax. I kind of like the idea, though, so long as:

    A) Everyone gets the same health care

    B) Children under 18 are protected by their parents' coverage
     
  10. blue5

    blue5 Banned

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    actually the previous docu. was about the corrupt Republican party in power. This was about the government structure itself failing to provide adequate health care in comparison to other countries.

    Now, I seriously wonder if the only way the film was "debunked" was it failed to be comprehended by classic who thinks the country is the land of unicorns and talking butterflies.

    http://www.freedomworks.org/

    After looking through that site, it can be concluded that its a mainly republican propaganda site and its thinly disguised as some kind of reputable source of information. In fact it looks a bit like the style of Fox news which itself is made for people who polish turds.
     

  11. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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    Blue, I'm going to choose not to get in trouble by formulating a huge response that blasts your Marxist idiocy into little itty-bitty pieces. But:

    1) You don't live here. You have no clue what you're talking about.

    2) Once again, you managed to turn this into an anti-Republican rant. Pathetic.

    Bottom line? Keep the government as far away from controlling health care as possible. Use the free market and tort reform to encourage competition and to lower costs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2008
  12. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    Defending a Michael more film by accusing the debunker of propaganda isn't going to win you any brownie points for intellectual honesty.
     
  13. biggerx

    biggerx Ancient Guru

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    100% Agreed.
     
  14. Logic Zero

    Logic Zero Maha Guru

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    You should be able to lock up useless people.
     
  15. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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  16. Cybermancer

    Cybermancer Don Quixote

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    @blue5:
    Looking at your previous "Infraction" history, blue5, I can't believe that you're insulting and provoking people like that.

    Please consider this as a sincere, and well-meant warning without any infraction points, blue5.

    Please keep this in mind when you reply to a post that seems to offend you. Take a deep breath first, and try to show some maturity by choosing a less offensive formulation/reply.

    I think, everybody should be allowed to say what he thinks, as long as it doesn't insult somebody else, blue5.

    This time it's just a verbal warning (without points) from my side.


    @Classic Satch:
    I think, you made the right choice there. Although, I think that you should have swallowed the "idiocy". Try not to take it personally (although it might be), and prove to yourself and the other members that you stand above such "attacks". Your reward for doing so will be our respect and support. ;)
     
  17. blue5

    blue5 Banned

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    fair enough, I apologize for any comments which offended.

    everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I merely stated that Micheal Moore has his evidence and presented it. The site you referred to was not a credible source.

    It probably was a bit offensive, but such statements such as it was "thoroughly debunked" with reports to the contrary really didn't help your case.
     
  18. Cybermancer

    Cybermancer Don Quixote

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    Now, that sounds a whole lot better, imo, blue5. ;)

    Although I haven't seen a movie from Michael Moore so far, I heard that he is at least very controversial.

    In the end, though, I think, we all can agree on the fact that the death of that woman could have been easily prevented, and that it is a tragedy we all can hopefully learn something from. I think, it should be a reminder to keep our ears and eyes open, and to help each other, instead of living in our own world with only our own interests in mind.

    (Damn. I should have become a priest or something like that. ;))
     
  19. Neo Cyrus

    Neo Cyrus Ancient Guru

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    I don't even need to read the article to know that this was in Toronto wasn't it? The last time I waited from 9pm to 6am with someone seriously ill in the "emergency waiting room" to see the damn doctor.
     
  20. Classic Satch

    Classic Satch Banned

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    Blue, quite frankly, we know each other well enough that you CAN'T offend me. :)

    However, to refer to my citations as "not credible" shows an astounding amount of arrogance and tunnel-vision. Anyone who is even remotely familiar with Michael Moore and is open-minded, knows that he is a lying ideological stooge who omits anything that contradicts his predetermined opinions and treats facts as something to be used only if they back him up.

    Fahrenheit 911 and Sicko are just two of his better known excursions into the fever swamps of the Far Left. But, I'll leave it at that.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2008

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