Witcher 3 Announcement From CD Projekt Red

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by LtMatt81, May 15, 2015.

  1. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    I always turn back to latest game that had same system req. FC4. Later ingame 290 was pushing 40% higher fps than 770. I would say let's just wait the game and hope for the best.
     
  2. niczerus

    niczerus Master Guru

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    please @AMDMatt respond my question , amd release a new drivers for the witcher 3 yes or no ?
     
  3. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    Its pretty much common knowledge that for most developers (unless you opt for the source licence, that only came about recently, it wasnt available previously, which most dont) gameworks code are black box binaries, no source.

    You cant optimize what you dont have the source for.

    Did you not get the memo?

    Hense his statement.
     
  4. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Then memo is wrong.

    First AMD/Nvidia always having an access to full game source, and that being the only way and the requirement to "optimize" is a bunch of huey.

    2nd devs are free to license (OR NOT) what ever they please from Nvidia, and that includes sources.
    So where is the issue here?


    From the time when Watchdogs performed like garbage on AMD:

    One of the more damning statements made by AMD was this:

    “Participation in the Gameworks program often precludes the developer from accepting AMD suggestions that would improve performance directly in the game code—the most desirable form of optimization.”

    Nvidia’s Cebenoyan responded directly to this during our conversation: “I’ve heard that before from AMD and it’s a little mysterious to me. We don’t and we never have restricted anyone from getting access as part of our agreements. Not with Watch Dogs and not with any other titles. Our agreements focus on interesting things we’re going to do together to improve the experience for all PC gamers and of course for Nvidia customers. We don’t have anything in there restricting anyone from accessing source code or binaries. Developers are free to give builds out to whoever they want. It’s their product.”

    Seeking some clarification, I asked if perhaps AMD’s concern was that they’re not allowed to see the game’s source code. Cebenoyan says that a game’s source code isn’t necessary to perform driver optimization. “Thousands of games get released, but we don’t need to look at that source code,” he says. “Most developers don’t give you the source code. You don’t need source code of the game itself to do optimization for those games. AMD’s been saying for awhile that without access to the source code it’s impossible to optimize. That’s crazy.”

    As for the Nvidia-specific source code: “The way that it works is we provide separate levels of licensing,” Cebenoyan explains. “We offer game developers source licensing, and it varies whether or not game developers are interested in that. Now, like any other middleware on earth, if you grant someone a source license, you grant it to them. We don’t preclude them from changing anything and making it run better on AMD.”
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonev...ut-gameworks-amd-optimization-and-watch-dogs/

    Other than their usual tweets and occasional poisonous anti-GW statements, AMD never took the time to properly respond to this ^^
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2015

  5. Plug2k

    Plug2k Ancient Guru

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    To be honest its all down to this $$$$$$$$$$$$$

    why couldn't CDProjectRED just add amd settings page and nvidia settings page
    and optimized the hardware for amd drivers on there page and nvidia on there page

    it would solve everything.

    but i guess pc gaming is all about $$$$$$$ these days and not about equal performance between the camps.

    just my honest opinion...
    cause i know for a fact anything nvidia hardware can do amd hardware can also.
     
  6. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    your entire post has been proven repeatedly that its a bunch of nonsense.

    its nvidia propaganda. devleopers ARE NOT PERMITTED TO GIVE AMD SOURCE.

    No source for gameworks, no optimizations. period.
     
  7. millibyte

    millibyte Maha Guru

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    I could care less about gameworks settings. All I hope to see is that crossfire scales well and that there is parity between AMD/Nvidia gpus at the same price point when those gameworks features are disabled. Can you comment on that AMDMatt?
     
  8. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    Same like they are not permitted to let Lichdome TressFX 2.0 work on Nvidia cards.
    And same like they are not permitted to give Mantle sources to Intel.
    But you don't see Nvidia or Intel complaining.

    But devs are free to optimize the hell out of it, with ot without sources, its their decision.
     
  9. Doom112

    Doom112 Master Guru

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    Yup same as TressFX 2.0 in Lichdom Nvidia would get only 20fps.

    https://steamcommunity.com/app/261760/discussions/2/620700960748580422/

    Topic close because AMD cannot do anything about it.
     
  10. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Is there any idea about proper performance parity without the Hairworks part? I understand it might run bad, and that you more or less cannot do anything about it unless CDProjektRED does, but what about performance parity without it off?

    The previous game run fine on AMD hardware, is that going to follow the same trend? (This one runs too, judging by the PS4 performance).
     

  11. Doom112

    Doom112 Master Guru

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    CD project Red Mod said that R9 290 will run Witcher 3 on High settings @1080p absolutely fine.
     
  12. otimus

    otimus Member Guru

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    I imagine him flat out ignoring the question may as freaking well tell you "no."

    I bet they're delaying the driver for the stupid freesync crossfire driver that already got delayed.
     
  13. Aioras

    Aioras Master Guru

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    Dunno you guys but games like this one makes me change from red to green, it´s simply, if amd gpus can´t handle well AAA titles likes Witcher 3... then there´s a real big reason to change to the other said IMO.

    And for sure I´ll this time, let´s cross my fingers that Witcher 3 moves reasoable on my GPU setup....
     
  14. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    like he said, it will handle it fine.
     
  15. cc5037

    cc5037 New Member

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    TressFX is Open Source. Nvidia has optimized for it just not on Lichdome. IMO Nvidia did a better job optimizing for it in TR than AMD did.

    Gameworks is a totally different beast. It generally runs badly on everything and only Nvidia is allowed to optimize for it.

    Depending on the scene it turns into a single digit slideshow on a GTX 980. This can only be changed by Nvidia. Devs complained about this last year and their predictions came true. Devs have multiple showings of the game in playcasts and the game has performance issues with Gameworks so they eventually turned them off.

    That's the point of Gameworks... they can't. They have to wait on the development company and Nvidia before they can start work on anything.

    The rules to optimize for Gameworks code is now available but it wasn't when Witcher 3 was being written.

    Either way people need to chill out. Witcher 3 isn't an FPS and Witcher devs are some of the best out there. Give it time.
     

  16. sammarbella

    sammarbella Ancient Guru

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    Or maybe he didn't know or he is not allowed to speak about this?

    Who knows?

    The crossfire Freesync support could appear to be stupid but it's a PR mess who has been delayed for one month and now delayed again with NO ETA.

    It's a BIG problem for monitor manufacturers of freesync model with 4K native resolution.

    Who is able to play in a 4K Freesync monitor at 4K/60 fps with a SINGLE AMD GPU?

    The resolution of these monitors NEEDS crossfire support for Freesync.

    Who is buying these monitors WITHOUT crosffire support for gaming?

    NOBODY in his right mind.
     
  17. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    They say that a GTX 770 will do the same, and they equate them while they are not equal at all. That's one part of the worrying trend about normal performance.

    Let's wait and see I say.

    That's quite true. TressFX runs same/better for NVIDIA GPUs now, but the libraries are open and NVIDIA could optimize.

    People many times confuse being able to optimize for the game, from being able to optimize for a library that the game calls from. The game might call functions from a library, that library communicates with the GPU in any fashion it wants, and then you "integrate" that result into the game code, to put it in layman's terms. The problem that AMD has with GameWorks libraries is that they either have to reverse engineer them (and at this point I doubt if they even can put their hands on them, and I'm sure there are revisions), or they literaly have to record every single call possible from the game and then reverse engineer the calls for maximum performance, which is basically prohibitive in time and manpower costs.

    When NVIDIA says that they give "source access", they mean that they give it to the developers. Meanwhile, the whole point of the ready libraries is that you don't have to write the damn thing yourself, so giving access of the source code to the developers means nothing.

    If they really believed what they said, they could have open-sourced the libraries and enable their competition to optimize for them (like AMD did with TressFX).

    You mean to say that they complained that the GameWorks libraries were slow even on NVIDIA hardware? I have a feeling that hardware-wise the game is really optimized for GCN. Have seen very little of it but it's whole "style" looks very compute heavy and that is not really Maxwell's strong point.
    I'm also on the wait and see crowd, it's four days left anyway, and they said that the release day patch improves performance.
     
  18. otimus

    otimus Member Guru

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    It's not so much that I think it's "stupid" per say, I just think it's stupid to delay new drivers with optimizations and whatnot just for something that niche.

    That being said, I totally expect that to happen. I'll be pleasant surprised, though!

    Can you really blame me for having such low faith in AMD's driver support?
     
  19. maxstep

    maxstep Member Guru

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    Why bother with AMD than? Virtually every AAA title nowadays uses Gameworks effects... I knew that AMD could not do much about it, but to be literally denied access.
    Bloody Nvidia.
    And yet, if you want to experience the full games nowadays there's nowhere to run but to Nvidia eh?
     
  20. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    Depends on what you consider "full".

    As far as I understand most GameWorks "features" are put over the game itself during the last phases of development, and usually have nothing to do with developer vision for said game.
     

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