Windows power plan settings explorer utility

Discussion in 'Operating Systems' started by mbk1969, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    there are quite a bit changes from balanced to HP, you mentioned a few but the major ones would be for 12th gen Intel but from a performance viewpoint.
    1) Processor energy performance preference policy and class1 one.
    2)Minimum processor state and class1 one.

    Those affect clock speed the most, there are many other changes to many for me to list but also many that you see as hidden also don't apply to Intels Heterogeneous systems.
    You can also try messing with "Heterogeneous thread scheduling policy " and "Heterogeneous short running thread scheduling policy" can try Prefer performant processors or Performant processors settings. This works well in Win10.

    Anyway, every system is different I don't notice any delays or user input with parked cores once a decent load is applied the cores unpark very fast but having the option to unpark if you find it works for you is the important thing.

    PS: I am the QA tester for Bitsum, Processlasso and Park Control.
     
  2. pensioner600

    pensioner600 Member

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    Well done! Keep it up guys!

    This only affects the clock speed and I really don't think it matters. Switching frequencies using hardware speedshift occurs very quickly, much faster than software core parking. This parking kills the lightning speed of top systems.
    Speaking of the impact on a single thread and the operation of a single-dual-core boost 3.0. On the screenshots with and without parking. With parking, cores jump from one to another, with the spent core being parked, and the new one being unparked first, and so on. And they are not 100% loaded. In the case of no parking, the load is stable on one core at 100%. I also determine by voltage with just one glance what EFFECTIVE frequency is working at the moment. And without parking, it stays at the top much more stable. In both cases, the selected kernels are chosen correctly. But I don’t understand why with parking on in this test two threads are always loaded, random cores and virtual HT cores (always not 100%), but with parking off only one virtual HT core is loaded (always 100%). There can be no mistake here, since I drew the monitoring panel of the second screen myself, configured the necessary sensors and already checked their compliance a thousand times. And to be honest, I don’t know for sure which of these is better and whether it can be assumed that when only one virtual HT thread is loaded, then this can be considered as full-fledged work of the entire core, but the scores in single-threaded benchmarks are always higher with parking turned off.
    (665).jpg (666).jpg (667).jpg (668).jpg
     
  3. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    Yes, CB2x likes unparked settings for sure. I am not seeing as pronounced of an issue as you but I do see better effective usage with HP an unparked cores but that flips on balanced I get better with parked but neither hit 100% as it dies on a HP plan with unparked settings.

    I think why you might see different results as I am no 12600k, this CPU doesn't have preferred cores or TVB. That"s just a guess.
     
  4. pensioner600

    pensioner600 Member

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    Did a little research.
    Windows 11 Pro, official builds, during installation and first launch the network is turned off, no updates, no installation of new drivers, only one reboot after the first launch.
    22000.318 November 2021 One of the first stable builds of 21H2.
    The 12th generation of Intel is already out.
    Parking disabled
    22621.382 July 2022 One of the first stable builds of 22H2.
    The 12th generation of Intel came out a long time ago. But 13 hasn't come out yet.
    Parking included
    22631.2428 October 2023 One of the first stable builds of 23H2.
    Parking included
    It turns out they turned it on somewhere between the beginning of 21H2 and the beginning of 22H2.
    It would be possible to establish more precisely when this happened, but why it is necessary is a troublesome matter. The main question here is: why did they do this?
    Снимок экрана (1).png Снимок экрана (1)).png Снимок экрана (1))).png
     

  5. Donduck

    Donduck Master Guru

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    People love to see highest core frequency, then MS and Intel give them.
     
  6. Donduck

    Donduck Master Guru

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    Finally found why Ryzen's frequency scaling are different on AC and DC, there is an AC/DC frequency scaling mode hidden by AMD but can be tweaked via RyzenAdj, switching to the more power saving option lowers AC daily use temperature by ~5°C (GPU temp in taskmgr).
    I have task scheduler to run this command when device is unlock & device connected to cable, so that the setting is applied whenever I use this laptop after turning it on or waking it up from hibernation (sleep doesn't matter because devices in S0ix sleep on DC automatically wake up for 5s after connected to cable). It finally stays cool all the time.
     
  7. Donduck

    Donduck Master Guru

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    @mbk1969
    Does Windows know when utilization is above 100%? HWiNFO shows 100% as max, but what about tools like XPerf/PwrTest/WinDbg? PwrTest is not working for those PPM commands somehow.

    update: never mind, ResMon does show utilization above 100%. WinDbg also fails to report PPM information.
    But more important question: does the scheduler knows when utilization is above 100%?
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2024
  8. Donduck

    Donduck Master Guru

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    My new test is showing that higher disk utilization is more frequent when NVMe power state transition tolerances allow power state 4. Keeping the drive to power state 3 solve the issue, and there isn't any noticeable power consumption difference even under modern standby test.
    Power state transition latency can be found with GSmartControl.
     
  9. vh87

    vh87 New Member

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    What's the current consensus for settings that provide a good balance between every day use and max performance / low latency when required?
    Currently have everything at stock since disabling core parking didn't reduce DPC latency.
     
  10. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    Depends on whether you use P-states (and which ones - legacy or hardware aka autonomous mode) and C-states.
     

  11. vh87

    vh87 New Member

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    All default at the moment. I'm on notebook
     
  12. AXS

    AXS Master Guru

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    Most of the Power Plan Settings are ported from previous versions of Windows (from what i could find - CPU Core parking was introduced in Windows Server 2008 R2 - that's around 15 years ago) - and the default settings are aimed at the general/average Windows User. i9-13900KF was released 2 years ago - a 24 Cores CPU with 32 Threads. Out of 1.6 billion Windows Users - how many own a CPU similar to yours - even among those using HP power plan?! Less than 0.001%?! That being said - sure, for your CPU might help - but for the other 99.99% using CPUs with 4, 6 or 8 Cores - might make little difference if not make things worst.

    That being said, if you check the official articles released by Microsoft on this subject (Windows Power Plan settings) - and while taking the latest CPU released into account - you'll find that they've been updated back in 2022: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/w.../configure-processor-power-management-options And they do offer all kinds of recommendations for tweaking all kinds of setting - which could help a user or another. But by Default - Windows Power Plan - is intentionally simplified - hiding setting that could cause problems if tempered with by just... anyone - who happens to find its way there.

    This is more than two decades old policy - where Microsoft kept trying to make Windows IDIOT-PROOF. Didn't succeed that entirely - but at least this days it's harder to delete Windows .dlls - and same goes for hidden settings. They were hopping you'd touch those only after you've did the research and read their articles. Yet, the majority - who are into tweaking Windows settings - just copy paste - registry settings from some internet guide which doesn't explain what each setting does - just says changing them improved performance.

    So hey, since your system is far from what the general Window users own - tweaking it for best performance can take some documentation (as intended). Maybe for Windows 15 - a CPU like yours would be at least mainstream if not entry level - and thus M$ will be compelled to rework all standard/default settings. And yes, i guess it sux that the whole Universe doesn't revolve around our specific needs & wants - as defined by our specific belongings. But hey, it's the way of the world. Specific needs/circumstances - need specific adjustments.
     
  13. pensioner600

    pensioner600 Member

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    I just shared my observations. I'm not saying that this is true for everyone. On the contrary, I indicate a specific example on a specific processor with screenshots of tests. We are all experimenters, we want to understand this and shared our observations and that’s great! And if you follow your logic, then you can close the topic altogether and completely trust the Microsoft default settings)) But here’s what’s interesting: on another foreign resource in the topic on processors of the 12th, 13th, 14th generation (and not only in this topic) it has already been confirmed by many that parking causes microfreezes, stuttering during sound output and, in general, high overall latency of the system. Many people rolled back to W10 only because it wasn’t there, it was just unknown at that time that it was the parking that was to blame. But it is disabled in W10. I wonder why?)) And there is also this fact: people working with sound on the W11 could work normally without sound interference only in the energy saving profile. And why? Because by default, only this profile has parking disabled. When they turned it off in other profiles, the stuttering and clicking in the sound completely disappeared. This doesn't seem like a coincidence, much less the "ideal" default settings. Microsoft provides only a blank, and the user is forced to bring it to his own perfection, collecting information bit by bit. And I would be very glad if I had found such a message similar to mine much earlier and would not have had to fight my forehead myself)) And many thanks to the author of this application. And thank you for the link.
     
  14. AXS

    AXS Master Guru

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    That wasn't my logic (you missed what i said completely - if that's what you understood). I'm actually baffled - you can read between lines to such extent - that you miss all the point. Especially after taking my time to go into details and explain in such a way that even a simple man (thinking wise) - should be able to understand. So once again, my point is/was - a system like yours is simply far from being a target for Window's default settings. Same goes for hidden settings - which are hidden for a very good reason (not so user friendly - if you don't know what you're doing). On the other hand - Microsoft did offer documentation for ways to tweak Window's power plan - for specific needs and specific systems (yours being one of them).

    So you see, neither Microsoft - nor did i had anything against you tweaking those settings. It's why they're there to begin with - despite being hidden. It's not like you had to crack the Windows Kernel - and implement those settings forcefully (against the way Windows was design to work). Yet, the expectations you had from Microsoft - are the equivalent of owning an F1 Racing car - and baffled that the city streets are not designed to fits your car model's needs (just because it's a major city and not a small town or the countryside). Such a car needs a specific road to run optimally - same way - a system like yours needs a bit of research for its specific needs. You'd be surprise - but generally speaking, most owning a similar system - won't notice or be bothered - cause they don't care (simply - not perfectionists). So hey, good for you - cause documentation is what it takes.

    It's not that we're test subjects. Windows is simply not optimized for your system or mine. Not like OSX it's optimized for a Mac. Same way, only Microsoft hardware - like a Surface Pro is expected to run optimally - without user interference. Personally, i'm also a tweak freak - took me hours to tweak Windows the way i like it (maybe even close to a week - till i was finally satisfied) - but i'm aware i have a bit of OCD - and expect things to run a certain way. Yet in the same time, i'm also aware (as i noticed time after time) - that most people don't care about stuff like this - even think it's a waste of time and that i'm crazy to notice or care (that's how people are - expecting others to share the same way of thinking or deem them crazy). I'm perfectly fine with that - i have my own needs and they have theirs. Thus, as the odd one out - it's not logical to expect a general system to revolve around my specific needs or wants. Just glad - it makes available ways to tweak it that system - so i can be satisfied as well.

    Windows 10 was released in a different time. On the other hand, when Windows 11 was released there was a "global obsession (or maybe "concern" is better way to put it) - with Saving Energy". And since Microsoft cares about is public image - they tried to show that they care as well - and slightly reworked Windows 11's power plan - even added a GUI with power saving suggestions (or Energy Recommendations - how it's officially called).

    https://www.groovypost.com/howto/apply-energy-recommendations-on-windows-11/

    Not that Gamers cared about stuff like that. Especially not someone who has a system - that's the equivalent of a Hummer in terms of using/wasting resources. Where again - we're back to the part where the Universe does not revolve around people with special needs/wants. As mentioned above, Microsoft also made available the tools to tailor the settings to one's specific needs. Hidden from the basic user - or at least from someone who doesn't know how to use google or even finds reading challenging. But since we're on guru3D - tweaking Windows settings comes with the territory (deemed as the norm). It's not like Tom's Hardware - a forum which became infamous for banning people who question the default Windows settings (never been a member there - but googling for one thing or another 7/10 i found a topic on Tom's Hardware - the mods were harassing some member for questioning some windows setting).
     
  15. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    @AXS

    MS did a shitty job both with power plan settings documentation and power plan API documentation. MS did even shittier job with power plan API itself.

    I seriously doubt they hoped for users to discover anything related to power plan settings.
     

  16. AXS

    AXS Master Guru

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    What do you mean?!

    Processor power management options overview

    Powercfg command-line options

    If anything, there's probably to many old dudes handling the documentation - or at least - neither of them seems to be a hardcore gamer (or can relate to this concept). A conclusion drawn by the fact - that most power tuning articles were written with Windows Server in mind (as if only a Server would require a high performance power plan tweaked for maximum latency and continuous workflow). And thus, we have the following articles...

    Power and performance tuning

    Processor Power Management (PPM) Tuning for the Windows Server Balanced Power Plan

    More Advanced Powercfg Command-Line Options

    Interrupt Affinity


    All the documentation is public. You can spend hours tweaking power settings while reading above articles. That being said - how many Windows users can you envision bother with stuff like that?! For basic users with a basic understanding (or care) - there's basic info like this:

    Power efficient settings in Windows 11


    I can agree that they could offer better explanations (with examples and such) - but for the majority - even above articles seem to be overwhelming (something they'd rather avoid). As i've noticed along the years - even people who are fond of tweaking Windows "they're not fond of reading the documentation (far from that - they seem loathe that part)". They expect someone to do all that work for them - so they can copy paste and just reap the benefits.

    And yes, i can agree that the API is crap. It's Microsoft, what did you expect?! Like every other big corporation - profit and popularity is their main interest. So, they'll act like they care... for the sake of maintaining an environment friendly image. That's why they changed some of the default settings in Windows 11. It's not like they removed those settings from Windows 11 to actually make a difference. Well, it does make a difference for the average users - but changing/switching back to power hungry mode is far from a challenge (same old, same old). I doubt you'll see advanced Windows users (which says to little - but still) - discovering Core Parking in 2024.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2024
  17. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    - not about power plan settings, but about power profiles (not even visible in Windows GUI).

    - not about power plan settings, but about powercfg.exe options.

    - only few settings explained and mostly repeated the description of setting, but only about Windows Server edition.

    - not about power at all, but about interrupts

    - not a documentation
     
  18. AXS

    AXS Master Guru

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    View attachment 24549 View attachment 24549
    Just an example. Does interact with Power Plan setting:

    Each profile supports the following configuration settings:


    On systems with processors with heterogeneous architecture, the configuration settings for efficiency class 1 cores use a similar naming convention.

    The common parameters have the suffix "1" to indicate efficiency class. Hetero-specific parameters have the prefix "Hetero".


    Which makes above articles "part of said documentation".
    Which can also modify Power Plan Setting - again, this to is interconnected (goes hand in hand with power settings). Powercfg is how most of us changed the the Power Plan Settings - same goes for revealing hidden settings - and adding them to Power Plan Settings. Bumped into your little app/GUI for same settings - only last year. Yet, been changing/tweaking Power Plan Settings for more than a decade - with powercfg:

    https://imgur.com/NrDdk1F

    Same goes for 99% of guides for tweaking power setting spread all over the internet. If anything your app is simply more convenient (since all the settings are in one place) - a GUI to Power Plan's hidden/visible settings. But people who don't know about it - either use Win Registry or Powercfg to change the hidden settings.
     
  19. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    They are not part of documentation of power plan settings because they belong to power profile settings (available only on Win10/Win11, only with special tool Windows Configuration Designer). Here is the quote from https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/w.../configure-processor-power-management-options:
    Not a single word about power plans. We can only guess whether settings from power profiles (described in article) have the same logic in power plans.



    Do you even see in those MS links how PowerCfg can hide and unhide power plan settings? And it can.
    Their articles on PowerCfg only provides instruction on how to change power plan settings with it, not a single hint what these power plan settings do.

    PS I will repeat - they did a shitty job both with documentation and with API.
     
  20. Donduck

    Donduck Master Guru

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    I have only seen that in an old Windows 7 powercfg document, the attribute_hide thing originates from there.
    I am already using them, and analyzed power settings decided by Intel/AMD/Qualcomm, MS also have their settings for surface SKUs.
    The "default" alias falls back to balanced type power plan/overlays, power profile is just some automations of applying power settings, such as game mode's power setting will engage when your focus is on a window which is identified as game via Xbox gamebar.
    And you don't really need Windows Configuration designer, Windows 11's powercfg provides full functionality to configure power profiles and QoS settings; on Windows 10 I am currently just adding the corresponding registry keys for configuration because writing xml for .PPKG is also painful.

    @mbk1969 @AXS @pensioner600 The thing is, MS and chip vendors decide to make you use balanced type plan and overlays, Windows Update could deploy those settings, or they could be included in a .PPKG file provided along with chipset drivers. User settings will always override provisioned settings.
    You guys shouldn't just struggle with power plans, learn some new feature on Windows 10 and 11, Windows can switch power settings when gaming, and you can even control how much performance is gained by background processes.
    As an example, the Ryzen 7800X3D core parking problem was because AMD wrongly deployed 2CCD core parking settings on 7800X3D.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2024

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