Windows 10 will soon predict the best time to restart PC after an update

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. Mateja

    Mateja Member Guru

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    same. but I am OCD about checking manually every day (which most people aren't) so I wouldn't know how they're pushed. for me I check, sometimes it's already d/l-ed, have to click install manually, then when it's done the system menu comes back w/ a red flag asking me to restart, manually.

    already works pretty perfect imo

    on redstone 4 enterprise, always updated, but who knows what people are dealing with these days with 5 forks of windows 10, different versions in every fork, and people forcing off updates. that alone explains any erratic behavior imo lol. i did get a permanent black screen once on one old laptop and I had to force restart twice for an auto rollback on that particular patch lol. and I'm not the only one. has since been fixed to be able to fully update by windows updates. exactly the type of issue they're trying to solve. tbh I think this AI it's less about when to restart and more about what machines get what updates. would it not take a super intelligence to match various pieces of software patches to billions of different hardware configurations? ... to me this is an inevitable and sound next step if it works. (let's just hope for MS sake it does cuz they're really selling this AI/perfect updates thing. they should probably have just implemented it unannounced imo, but I'm no marketing professional)

    p.s. sorry for the triple post glitch while I was editing this I cleaned them up. lol
     
  2. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    It's already a "People Zoo" controlled by others so it'll just be a swap over from people law enforcement to mechanical/ai law enforcement. Maybe 2050 ^^
     
  3. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    Just add a manual install option like all previous versions of Windows and were good.
     
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  4. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    Windows 10 decided to reboot when I left PC at work overnight for scanning viruses (once a week rule). Apparently M$ thought it fine to interrupt scan and restart system for update.

    I am really sick of windows update and how its trying to force its crap on users.
    And what do I have to do? I finally made OS not to install updates automatically by editing my registry. (WTF M$?!)

    And apparently there nothing I can do to stop automatic reboot AFTER installing updates. It just decide to reboot whenever it wants!!
    I disabled auto reboot scheduler for windows update and darn thing STILL reboots!

    I am getting really sick of M$ not trusting its users to take care on updates and just forcing their crap on us.

    Give advanced users options already! Let us decide when we want to reboot system, let us remove all stupid bloatware, let us have control over Win10!
    This is so messed up.
     

  5. icedman

    icedman Maha Guru

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    Its bs that we have to modify registry and service setting to be able to get updates when its convenient for us.
    As for this 9/10 times it asks me for a restart a while back it restarted without asking but lately it asks and I can delay but it is super annoying that it will pop up in front of anything you're doing it has got me killed a few times in my games.
     
  6. Glottiz

    Glottiz Master Guru

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    Oh wow get off your high horse, will you? I bet you waited all month to attack fellow forum users with your superiority complex.

    If you bothered to actually read anything I was talking about easy to see solution to disable reboot so every user can do it, like a checkbox in settings which should work across all Windows editions.

    You think you are some super special god user because you Googled how to use gpedit, regedit, scheduler tricks? I'm pretty sure everyone else here knows all about those as well. So just stop, your post is so embarrassing and cringy and I could hardly finish reading it with a straight face.
     
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  7. m4dn355

    m4dn355 Member Guru

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  8. 386SX

    386SX Maha Guru

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    I hated that, too, but found 2 easy workarounds for that, depending on your taste:

    1.) Set your LAN connection to a metered connection (= you "pay per minute" or have limited MB to download). Windows itself will not even search for updates until you manually do so. Therefore no restart. :D
    2.) Download and "install" (extract) "WSUS Offline Update". The program is portable, means no install. Just extract and run "UpdateGenerator.exe". Select the platform you want updates for (for example "Windows 10 x64 English" or "Windows 10 x86 German" or whatever) and the program will download the index file from MS first (about 300MB, that is what takes so long when searching for updates! You have to download the file, extract it, compare to the updates installed and find the missing updates from the catalog file) and download all the updates for the platform you selected. This works for Office, too.
    After the download you get into the sub-dir CLIENT and run the "UpdateInstaller.exe" to install all necessary stuff.
    The updates remain on your disk for a possible reinstall, so you don't have to download all of this stuff again after a fresh install, only run the installer.
    Got another machine? Share the folder through the net or copy the CLIENT folder to USB and run it on the target machine. => up2date!
    You then can disable WU completely by GPO or else.

    On clients I use method 1, on servers I use 2 for more control.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    German saying: Stick your finger into your bum, turn it around and play helicopter. ROTOTOTOTOTOTOTOTOTOT-SPLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
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  9. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    They should implement more predicting modules for health, money, wedding/divorce - real life stuff.
     
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  10. 386SX

    386SX Maha Guru

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    Microsoft Doc: Your life will end in 10 ....
    Patient user: In 10? 10 what? Days? Years?
    Microsoft Doc: 9 ...

    :D
     
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  11. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I would not mind... there's good chance that countdown would freeze at 3.
     
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  12. CoMmAnDrX2

    CoMmAnDrX2 Active Member

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    On Pro and above versions, Home edition does not allow this.
     
  13. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    These are both pretty cool tips - I never thought about using a metered connection that way (is there anything else it affects? I'm sure it doesn't grab data for the live tiles, but I don't use those anyway), and I wasn't aware of the WSUS Offline Update. I personally don't use Windows often enough for the WSUS thing to be much use to me, but it's definitely worth keeping in mind. For me, my biggest gripe about the updates is how long it takes for them to install after they have already been downloaded.
     
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  14. Fender178

    Fender178 Ancient Guru

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    With me I will never let MS get a chance to use the Stupid AI feature because I will restart my PC once they tell me to and I prepare my PC to restart.
     
  15. 386SX

    386SX Maha Guru

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    Side effects I noticed:
    Outlook does not download new emails if you start it, you have to click on some button because it asks you because ... you are on a metered connection ... ;)
    Regarding live titles ... I am honest ... I do not know. I use Win10 together with a software firewall and the first thing I do after reinstall is removing all the unnecessary MS bullshit like XBOX support and stuff. But to get you right: You mean the bloody Windows apps which install without your consent, right? Those fu**ing "micky Mouse" games and Solitaire collection and this annoying stuff, right? I don't get this, but as I said, could be my software firewall, too.
    Other side effects I do not know of (yet). I think some parts of Windows / Office products will probably ask you before they connect. But network shares and RDP to my machine still work without issues, the net shares connect instantly after bootup for example.

    WSUS Offline is NOT a WSUS. I agree with you, WSUS is an overkill for like 90% of all users. And WSUS brings problems, A LOT of problems. :D
    WSUS Offline Update is basically a CMD script (multiple ones to be exact) together with WGET (a small downloader, may changed for ARIA2 if you like this better) and some sigcheck executables to verify the integrity of the downloaded files. Not much more. The whole extracted folder (without updates) is about 10 megabytes in total. Together with updates for one OS and for one version of Office is about 12 - 18 gigabytes, depending on versions. You may keep this folder on your disk for years, and after you run the UpdateGenerator it only downlaods the missing updates, saving you bandwidth and when it comes to the annual Win10 upgrades, it saves you disk space and time. It downloads every C++ Redisttributable (2005 I think until 2013 or so, ALL of them, x86 and x64) together with .NET Framework 4.7 or whats the latest version for your OS. They even offer an ESR version supporting WinXP or an even older one supporting Windows 2000!!!

    Regarding your "biggest gripe" about the install: The >big< updates on Win10 are typically bigger than 700MB!! And those are archives, that means they get extracted and may then possibly contain more MB's. I saw some with 1,3GB, per update! So you can't do anything about this, other than integrating those into an install before you go into the installing trouble. Use "DISM++" (I think it is called like this) to have a GUI for DISM (otherwise without knowledge it is a pain in the a$$ to learn it >fast< to reliably and safely use it!). Put the updates in that after selecting the install medium and wait for some minutes / hours until the process is complete. You get everything directly into your Win10 install ISO or USB drive, so every update is installed right while installing Windows, in a faster manner!
    Say 4 updates touch the same file, one after another.
    Usually you would install Windows to get v1 of the file.
    Then update 1 to get v2 of the file. U2 gets you v3, U3 to v4 and U4 lastly gets you version 5 of the file.
    The file is touched 4 times, but at last the file is only one time there.
    So the integration puts the newest files into the INSTALL.WIM archive and adjusts the index what to install.
    So when you install Win10 with the updates integrated, in INSTALL.WIM you only find v5 (the last version) of the file. It gets copied / "touched" one time in the whole process but you get v5 directly. Like the other way by installing every update one by one you get one file.
    So the result is the same, but the process is a lot easier, even more if you install computers on a regular basis.
    Please note however the ISO file (or USB installation size) WILL be bigger than before, you added something. If you burn your install from ISO to DVD, you MAY need a DL sized DVD, depending on the amount of updates you add and their size and what they add function wise (probably they do not replace files but only add additional files to the whole process).

    I am proud to have almost a routine established to completely reinstall my machines by simply rebooting them. :D
    After reboot = boot from LAN
    A custom image (WinPE) is loaded. Customized by myself to contain logic and Acronis True Image and drivers I need (Ryzen system with NVME SSD).
    Logic detects TXT on separate disk, containing computer name and what image to take and downloads it from the server to a separate HDD (= not system drive).
    Then Acronis is run and images my SSD with my image.
    A reboot is done and Windows starts.
    On first start, RUNONCE contains an entry to run a BAT.
    BAT sets IP config (static IPs everywhere) with routes, gateways, etc. and sets another BAT to RUNONCE, then does a reboot.
    This other BAT is for Win10 and started in any case after the reboot, then detects if it runs on Windows 10 and if yes, it applies some tweaks like use of traditional photo viewer instead of this paint3d misery, setting connection to metered, setting some GPOs and some general stuff. Oh, and it adds both the UpdateGenerator and the UpdateInstaller to my desktop. :)
    Then another reboot is done to apply all the changes before and I get to the desktop. Then I manually install the updates by WSUS Offline Update.

    The whole process takes about 1,5 to 2 hours in total, including the imaging. I have nothing to do during this time, I can play with my kids, take the dog for a walk .... whatever. And if I see those two symbols from WSUS on my desktop I know I can continue. Oh, everything (or almost) is logged at some point (BAT output is piped to some TXT file), so if anything happens I know it.

    Right now there are only two issues left: I am unable to REALLY set the default programs for different file types. I can set Notepad++ as a viewer for my TXT files, but when I open a TXT for the first time, Windows asks me what program to use. But at least, Notepad++ is listed then. The other issue is I am unable to add the machine to my Active Directory this way. But hey, usually my reinstalls took a whole day, now about 2 hours.

    If you are interested in this stuff, you may create a thread and ask, I will gladly help you out.

    EDIT: You get WSUSOffline from here:
    www.wsusoffline.net

    You seem to be German (schmidt?), this program was made by the computer magazine C'T back in the 90's or early 2000's, probably you have heard of its name before.
     
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  16. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Well, I don't use Outlook, so that problem won't affect me either.
    And yeah, I also remove as much of the built-in crap as I can. I've recently been looking into LTSB since it doesn't come with any of it.
    So overall it looks like I'd be fine doing a metered connection.
    Haha being primarily a Linux user, I'm quite familiar with wget (and "curl", which is a bit similar) - I actually didn't even know it was ported to Windows.
    Personally, I wouldn't want to keep a folder on my local PC with ~18GB of updates, but if I had several Windows PCs that I use regularly (which I don't) then I'd probably look into putting the updates on a network share to help speed things up. Definitely all good suggestions for most PC enthusiasts, though.
    I really don't understand why such updates are so heavy, but, at least the total installed size (after cleaning up the "aftermath") isn't so bad. But yeah, I've just come to accept that being slow is part of the experience. I figure it'd be a lot faster if I could have the updates extract to a RAM drive, but I don't care enough to look into that.
    That's another great tip, but again, it's really only useful for those who handle multiple Windows installs.
    I never understood this. You'd think the latest update would just simply obsolete all of the older ones, but it doesn't. I think one of the reasons why Windows Update is so slow is because it installs every update incrementally, even when there are updates that may wholly overwrite every file that a previous update had.
    I think there may actually be easier methods, like using NTLite, along with other software deployment services like Active Directory. But, maybe I'm wrong - I haven't actually bothered with such tools (never needed them).
    Can't this be done with via tweaks to the registry? I'm sure you could automate a .reg file in your batch scripts.
    I have a German background but I lived in the US my whole life, and like a typical American, I'm not multi-lingual.


    Anyway thanks again for the detailed write-up! I'm sure others will find this info useful too.
     
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  17. anticupidon

    anticupidon Ancient Guru

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    Way to over-complicate things Microsoft!

    /rant mode on
    I hate WU with a passion, high rank IT guys handed me a laptop with W10 when it was launched to use(somehow forced me to) and I used that laptop for a presentation in a theatre full of diplomats. people in high-rank civil positions, the mayor and local authorities...guess what, the lovely W10 decided it was the best time to update and restart during that presentation.
    I pulled my Thinkpad from my backpack, running Mint back then and resumed the presentation.
    /rant mode off

    After I got my ass kicked by almost everyone as it is easier to place the blame on someone rather understand OS intricacies, the high ranked IT guy mumbled something about "rough edges" and not his fault. We are no longer colleagues, nor work together.
    Today, I am still amazed how come Linux distros can update without restarting (apart from a very few special situations) and running that task away, not stealing focus nor consuming way too many resources.
     
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  18. Reddoguk

    Reddoguk Ancient Guru

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    I don't mind the updates as long as they are fixes or security updates, forced updates for stupid added features that i'll never use annoy me. I got the OS for free so i can't really complain plus i love win 10, Stripped out to bare minimum of course buy hey still solid OS for me.
     
  19. UnrealGaming

    UnrealGaming Ancient Guru

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    Just disable and enjoy :)

    [​IMG]
     
  20. DLD

    DLD Master Guru

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    Joe Jackson, an American musician wrote these lyrics (song is called "TV age"): "...TV rules (Pretty soon we won't be able to turn it off at all) ... (Then it'll turn you off, your backs against the wall)".
     

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