Windows 10 refresh rate issues

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by brutlern, Aug 20, 2015.

  1. Glottiz

    Glottiz Master Guru

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    1. maybe you have trouble reading so I'll repeat myself again. It happens in ALL DX11 games (at least all I tested) in Win 8 and up. there is refresh rate change when alt tabing back to desktop (because that runs at 60Hz and your game ran at 59.94Hz), you can deny it all you want, but it happens on Win8+ and does not happen on Win7.

    2. yes there is a microstutter, just because you can't see it doesn't mean there isn't. the further you get away from 60Hz the more stuttering you'll get. if you run 59Hz you'll get moderate amount of stuttering, if you run 58Hz even more stuttering. 59.94Hz is very very close to 60Hz so it's hard to notice that's why i called it micro-stuttering.

    3. once again, just because it seems fine to you don't make it so. in win7 dx11 games we can choose 59 and 60hz, while in same games under win 8 and 10 we can only choose 59hz and 59hz listed twice. are you still arguing that this is normal behavior and not an issue when it clearly is?
     
  2. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    Your reading skills are clearly above mine as you still haven't been able to decipher what I've said several times already. THERE IS NO REFRESH CHANGE. When an app requests a different MODE then the display flicker. It doesn't mean that the actual refresh or mode has changed because, well, 59 and 60 is the same refresh.

    No, there is no microstutter. We can go like this for a long time. You clearly don't know what microstutter is and what are its causes. Any figure of display refresh rate can't cause a microstutter. Even 24 Hz.

    Once again, just because you think you have a problem with display refresh rate doesn't mean that there is one.

    You should really stop arguing and make an effort in describing the problem in such a way that anyone can try and reproduce it. So far you haven't even specified these "DX11 games" you constantly talk about and I can assure you that I don't have a choice between 59 and 59 in ANY DX11 game I have installed on my PC right now.

    An illustration from Windows 10 for some thought on your part:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    The first one is from a DP-connected PC display. The second one is from an HDMI-connected 55" 1080p TV. Neither show what you're describing here.
     
  3. Glottiz

    Glottiz Master Guru

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    look, i'm glad everything is working fine for you, but can you please stop spamming this thread if you don't experience this issue? you seem to have taken this very personal and offended that different people experience different issues on their hardware and software. is this concept too hard for you to understand and what is your goal you are trying to achieve here?
     
  4. johnathonm

    johnathonm Member Guru

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    What game is that? Just curious.
     

  5. KingDazza

    KingDazza Master Guru

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    Yes, I've experienced this after upgrading from win7 to win10. Noticed it first under GTAV, when the only options were 59 and 59 for the refresh rate. However I did manage to resolve it but cant quite fully remember what I did... iirc it was fixed after deleting the documents/settings I had imported from win7 and doing a fresh install of the game. Now I have refresh rate correctly offering 60. Also, since having the issue I've since done a complete fresh install of win 10. Long story short I did have the issue but now fully resolved. May not help you much, but at least you know you're not going mad or alone! :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2015
  6. KingDazza

    KingDazza Master Guru

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    I reckons its a bit of Black Flag mi ole hearty!
     
  7. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    The goal I'm trying to achieve here is to make you understand that you are not giving a proper description of the problem you're having thus it's impossible for anyone to actually try to reproduce it.

    None of you with the issue in this very thread has even given the names of the monitors you're having this issue with. None of you have actually checked with AB if the forced 60 Hz you're talking about is actually producing a 60 Hz limit with VSync instead of 59.9 with 59 Hz - even in Win7.

    You are talking about "microstuttering" (which can't happen with vsync on and GPU rendering at vsync limit but you obviously don't know this), display flickering with Alt-Tabbing as if that proves anything (which may happen for a crapload of reasons in WDDM since DWM is a 3D app too but what's even more important - a display re-initialization doesn't mean that the resolution has changed at all) and the image being less crisp (what?).

    The way you are describing the issue leads me to believe that there is no issue at all while there certainly can be an issue. But you're not helping anyone to identify it.

    AC4 Black Flag. Saw GTA5 mentioned and will check it out as well once it downloads - had to reformat the whole system a couple of weeks ago. But I remember running GTA5 in Win8/10 just fine on both DP and HDMI.
     
  8. maxstep

    maxstep Member Guru

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    Vsync in nvidia surround causes mad screen tearing still!
     
  9. brutlern

    brutlern Master Guru

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    As I dont have a DVI cable around, I cannot yet confirm this but I am pretty sure that the problem is caused by Windows/drivers incorrectly assuming that I am using a TV because of the HDMI cable and that is why it's forcing 59 Hz. And it also explains why the problem is not so wide spread because A) if you're not using TV you're most likely using DVI (or Display Port... or maybe even VGA for older monitors) and not HDMI; and B) if you're using TV with HDMI that you may actually want the 59 Hz in which case everything is working properly (C)multi-monitor setups, high refresh rate monitors aka 120/144 Hz, 3D monitors, are a whole different cake and there are other issues there to take in consideration, this issue concerns 60 Hz single monitors only)

    @dr_rus: rather than just spam with useless comments just try it yourself: get a monitor, connect it via HDMI, reinstall the drivers, set your desktop to 60 Hz, fire up a game in which you can select the refresh rate, and you will notice you can't select 60 Hz, as the option will either be missing or grayed out as unavailable.

    @Glottiz: if you have a DVI cable lying around (and of course if your monitor supports DVI) try it, so we can finally put this thing to rest

    @everyone else who has this problem: use CRU to create a custom resolutions and run everything at 60 Hz
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  10. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    I've just given you an example of such "game" on the previous page where selecting 60 is the only option. Did you even read? Or maybe instead of "spamming this thread with useless comments" you will start to provide some relevant information - a name of the "game" you're referring to would be a start.

    Also I've said this already but it seems that you can't read so I'll repeat myself again: 60, 59 and 59.94 is the exact same refresh rate in WDDM. It doesn't matter which one you select. At all.
     

  11. signex

    signex Ancient Guru

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    I also use DVI, and i can also confirm it sees 60hz, i used to have monitor with HDMI wich had that 59hz issue.
     
  12. brutlern

    brutlern Master Guru

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    And again a useless comment. Nothing constructive to add. Just repeating your irrelevant facts.

    Select 60 Hz for the the desktop and 59 Hz for ANY GAME (WE DONT HAVE TO GIVE A GAME EXAMPLE! ALL GAMES HAVE THIS ISSUE! I hope with all the caps now you can actually read it) and then just alt-tab back and forth from the game to the desktop, see what happens. If you are right, and all the refresh rates are the same like you say, than the transition should be smooth, no flickering, no blank screen for a second while the monitor changes the refresh rate, no nothing. I pretty much guarantee your are wrong and your screen will react in some way (unless you have some super expensive monitor that scan switch display modes so fast you can't notice it)
     
  13. brutlern

    brutlern Master Guru

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    So far it seems the problem is as I thought (and Gluttiz first pointed out) that the HDMI connection is the source of the problem. At least it's progress, we now know where the problem comes from.
     
  14. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    You don't have to describe in detail the problem you're having? So what response exactly are you counting on here?

    We've already established that you can't read so I'll repeat again just in case you'll learn: display flickering when Alt-Tabbing doesn't mean that the display mode has changed. If you don't believe me go into ANY game which has MSAA support, try changing the MSAA setting and check if you display flicker at that - this is supposed to mean to you that the refresh rate has changed somehow when changing MSAA mode, am I correct?

    Your description of the problem is flawed up to the point where I'm 99% certain that there is no problem and you just make the stuff up as you go. I'm still waiting on these screenshot with AB/RTSS OSD showing the peak framerates with vsync in 59 and 60 Hz refresh modes you're talking so much about to be different.

    Now, I mentioned I'll check GTA5, here's the results:

    DP connected U3014 display:
    [​IMG]
    60 only. No 59, no other modes to select from.

    HDMI connected Sony W808 TV:
    [​IMG]
    60 it is. It goes 24-30-50-60. No 59 Hz mode in sight.

    Now with the game set to refresh the display at 60 Hz in the settings let's take a look at the actual reported vsynced framerate:
    [​IMG]
    Who would've thought?! The game is actually running at 59.9(4) Hz even though it is supposed to run at 60 judging by its settings. Why is that? Because there is no difference in the actual refresh rates between 59, 59.94 and 60 modes in Windows.

    So shall we continue with you calling everything I post "spam" instead of providing any info to back up your claims or is that enough?

    Edit: Here's another interesting example, BTW - The Witcher 3 running vsynced in a borderless window (meaning that it is forced to run at a desktop refresh rate) is showing the same 59.9 refresh (meaning that the desktop 60 Hz refresh is actually a 59.9 Hz refresh as well):

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  15. Margusx

    Margusx Active Member

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    Hmm what is called that program to show pink information about hw
     

  16. ElementalDragon

    ElementalDragon Ancient Guru

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    If i had to guess... FRAPS.
     
  17. the9quad

    the9quad Master Guru

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    Can someone explain how a lower refresh rate and vsync cause more microstutter? Seems to me your gpu would be working less and thus have an easier time maintaining consistent frame times. Inconsistent frame times= microstutter...that's just my take on it, seems like this is more of a placebo effect from seeing 59hz than anything else. My opinion.
     
  18. GanjaStar

    GanjaStar Maha Guru

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  19. Margusx

    Margusx Active Member

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    Nope tested.

    ty
     
  20. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    You will want to edit your EDID further with a custom extension block. Add HDMI support but do NOT include support for "TV Resolutions"

    TV Resolutions **** everything up.

    Also this sounds like the problem a LOT of DX10 era games had. (One that many Capcom games still do)

    That's one part of the equation.

    The other is that, If the proper timing isn't being detected by the driver/game. It can't sync at the proper rate. Meaning there is a mismatch.

    It gets more complicated when you know your panel's actual Refresh Rate too. (Which fluctuates wildly between models. My 768p TV for example is 59.789)

    So since the monitor is expecting 60hz, it's being sent a 59hz signal instead.

    messes it up.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015

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