Windows 10 Queueing Frames in game (false fullscreen mode?)

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Andre Souza, Jan 18, 2020.

  1. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    I think FastSync only works if the game you are playing surpasses your refresh rate by a lot when it comes to the fps you are getting. Anyway, each time I tried it it made the game motion extremely juddery and strange. It does look it could work on a G-sync monitor.
     
  2. janos666

    janos666 Master Guru

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    It's very impractical to combine it with G-Sync. G-Sync+V-Sync+fpslimit is superior in all aspects.
    It's best combined with either very high or very low refresh rates. It's true ( OpenGL Style) tripple buffering. With low fps (fps<Hz) it produces the same amount of judder which you get with no *sync at all but the tear line is gone for the cost of a small latency increase (similar to "low latency V-Sync" or G-Sync but at any fluctuating refresh rate and without display hardware requirements). The judder is never fully gone at finite frame and refresh rates but becomes much better (more tolerable) above 2x of the refresh rate and at relatively high refresh rates (so, something like 120Hz and >=240fps). The judder is worst in the 1x-2x range, you get less judder at 0.5x-1x (fps/Hz). I personally used FastSync a lot before I could get G-Sync in TV sized displays. It worked fine for 2160p60 with fluctuating ~45fps and 1080p120 (>120 fps). The judder was always the worst in 2160p60 if the fps got really close or slightly above 60. But the judder is there with *sync=off as well, it's just less noticeable with the tear line distorting the image.
     
  3. Smough

    Smough Master Guru

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    As your other post? Disable HPET on the BIOS just because "evidence"? If what I posted are "poor decoys", then go to those videos and disprove what they are saying. All of what I mentioned must be done with v-sync on. Your BFV shot has a messed up frametime line. If you call that "flat", I seriously recommend you get your eyes checked.

    Frametimes change and a lot depending on the mode you are in. And some games literally get fixed if you use one setting or the other. Also please tell me in which why what I posted has "no proof"?
     
  4. n3v3rm1nd

    n3v3rm1nd Active Member

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    You really need to stop with that vsync propaganda. You spill so much misinformation on those threads it's mindblowing. Not everyone uses vsync and it's super impractical in shooters. His frametime graph does not show spikes so it's fine.

    FYI you don't need vsync for steady frametimes, not at all
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
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  5. alexander1986

    alexander1986 Master Guru

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    damn, this thread got derailed it seems, btw Andre did you solve this problem yet or have any new info about it ? thanks
     
  6. Risedo

    Risedo New Member

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  7. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Theres nothing to solve, CSGO uses D3D9ex flip
     
  8. hemla

    hemla Member Guru

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    Games I play don't appear in that registry key - but they do in "Computer\HKEY_USERS\S-[XXXXXXXX]\System\GameConfigStore\Children\". Any takes?
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
  9. alexander1986

    alexander1986 Master Guru

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    isnt that optional and not default?

    "[GRAPHICS]
    – Added an optional -d3d9ex command line switch to reduce CPU memory use by about 40%. If you encounter graphics problems with this feature, please send an email to CSGOTeamFeedback@valvesoftware.com with the subject “D3D9EX”."

    which would imply that csgo in its default state is not affected by this D3D9ex flip thing?


    the thread starter also states in his OP

    "I tested GPUView to check Nvidia limiter and I noticed it's queueing frames like it was running on Windowed Mode. Then I reverted the driver to the 436 series and noticed that this still happens. Using CSGO without any bottleneck from CPU or GPU, no vsync and framelimited to a a very stable fps I have tried without any overlay, without fullscreen optimization, with all low latency modes, with -d3d9ex and -nod3d9ex, game-mode on/off, etc. I do notice the alt-tab really fast between resolutions meaning something is going on. My OSD reports native resolution even with video scaling. No clue. Have tried a few months ago and had no queue at all while playing and DWM totally bypassed. Will I need to rollback to other windows 10 version or there is a fix?"


    what I can gather from this is that the problem of queuing frames and the game not running full screen exclusive mode happens/happened no matter what the OP tried, basically? could be wrong but that is how it seems at least..
     
  10. janos666

    janos666 Master Guru

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    I think D3D9ex is automatically enabled for most Source Engine games since several years (basically all titles which are new enough or were kept updated to new engine versions over the years, including the first Half-Life 2 game). D3D9ex debuted in Windows 7. Although the new flip-queue presentation mode itself is probably a fairly new addition (and not ported back to old Valve games [yet]). I think they originally added the *ex support for Windows 7 Aero specific features (I can't remember exactly what and how, probably some overlay thing, now probably obsolete on Windows 8+).

    Online games seem to gravitate towards this low latency Windowed Fullscreen with flip-queue mode over real fullscreen. And I guess that makes absolute sense since FSO hijacks fullscreen into something similar. It's probably better to use native modes... Win10-HDR10 could also be a factor.

    Edit: Ah! Sorry. dxlevel95 in older Source games is referred to as DX9+, not DX9ex.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020

  11. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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  12. n3v3rm1nd

    n3v3rm1nd Active Member

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    Microsoft just has to give us control over flip mode. This would fix any dx10.1+ game that does not have a proper fullscreen aka running in borderless. Nearly every dx12 game I tried runs in independent flip mode so theres already a good experience.

    As to why to this date this is not possible for us to control is mindblowing. You can use SpecialK on like GTA5 and enable flip mode and all the other options and it runs like fullscreen.

    It's so annoying
     
  13. janos666

    janos666 Master Guru

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    Is there some objective generic way to tell which mode is used?
     
  14. alexander1986

    alexander1986 Master Guru

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    so running the game with "-nod3d9ex" still runs the game in D3D9EX ?

    at least the OP said "I have tried without any overlay, without fullscreen optimization, with all low latency modes, with -d3d9ex and -nod3d9ex, game-mode on/off, etc. I do notice the alt-tab really fast between resolutions meaning something is going on."



    anyway, would be good to know if OP still has issues with this and thats why I asked I guess, on another note I dont play CS myself but Fortnite is a game that seems to default to the new presentation mode, the "fake fullscreen" one, if I run the game on a fresh windows install with GameDVR disabled and select fullscreen in the game options and press the windows key, it draws instantly on top of the game and alt-tabbing is instant pretty much, with or without "disable fullscreen optimisations" ticked in the game .exe properties,



    but if I try using the regedit settings (gameconfigstore things mentioned couple posts above), that seems to at least stop things like the start menu and overlays being drawn instantly over the game, and when I press the windows key the game "pauses" for a second and the monitor blinks, and tabs out to desktop, even when running the game in DX12 which seems strange, because I thought you could not force fullscreen exclusive mode in DX12 at all (?)



    although i'm not sure its really true fullscreen exclusive mode just because the start menu/overlays is not being drawn instantly, and I have no way or measuring/confirming if the registry tweaks actually makes this game run in fullscreen exclusive mode, subjective input delay feeling and objective FPS numbers in Fortnite are, on at least my system, identical at DX11/DX12 with or without those registry tweaks as long as I select "Fullscreen" in the game options, the only change I notice is that the start menu / overlays are not drawn instantly and it takes a second or two to tab out to desktop with the tweaks... for whatever its worth!
     
  15. n3v3rm1nd

    n3v3rm1nd Active Member

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    Quick and dirty is going borderless, disable vsync and look for tearing. Then it's in Independent flip mode.
     

  16. wtfisgoingon

    wtfisgoingon New Member

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    Greetings! I was curious about your comment regarding UE games being able to be forced into using exclusive true fullscreen and wondering if you had info on exactly how that can be done? Also wondering what ways are commonly used to verify if a game is in exclusive true fullscreen vs borderless windowed fullscreen?

    The reason I ask is that I'm very much into playing Dead By Daylight which happens to be a dx11 UE4 game that was designed to only run in borderless windowed fullscreen or windowed and not exclusive true fullscreen. The game is strange in a few ways. Some examples of what I mean are that there are no options to adjust resolution, refresh rate or FOV. There is also no option to turn off vsync which is on by default yet they also have smoothframes enabled and that limits FPS to 62. As well the game only "supports" (for lack of a better term) 1920x1080 so anyone with higher resolution monitor has to either drop their desktop to 1920x1080 before starting the game and keep it there while playing because the game only uses your current desktop resolution OR they can leave the monitor at whatever its native resolution is but then everything looks terribly zoomed in.

    I have a 1920x1080 currently so I don't have any experience with dealing with higher resolutions, but I've read countless posts complaining about it over the years. I don't actually use 1920x1080 though because the FOV that they force you to use is irritatingly low and when the game came out in 2016 I had a 1680x1050 monitor so when I upgraded the difference bothered me enough to go back to 1680x1050 then I discovered that 1620x1080 was even better and finally landed on 1440x1080 because it feels normal... anyways I'm rambling sorry.

    In my attempts at finding the best possible way to get rock steady FPS & frametimes at all time, lowest input latency and the usual I've managed to figure it all out so that it actually works better than I had ever hoped when I started. I'm still trying to learn more which is how & why I noticed your comment and was interested enough to actually use this account I made years ago for the first time! :)

    Anyway literally every tweak video on YouTube or guide I've found on this game claims that it can be run in exclusive true fullscreen mode among many others things that I've found by doing my own testing don't work at all and

    They essentially all claim all you need to do is use -fullscreen as a launch parameter and to edit an .ini file and set fullscreenmode=0 and then they always claim "don't forget to set read-only on the file properties or it won't work" which always triggers me because having tried this many many times over many many years I know this does not work. But I am always looking to learn what I can and thought I'd start by asking you!
     
  17. n3v3rm1nd

    n3v3rm1nd Active Member

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    For UE games you want to set it everything that is names fullscreen to zero. This should force it into fullscreen. Exclusive fullscreen isn't really a thing anymore. You can get it back with a couple of regedits but I'd rather keep the new presentation mode. I never had issues with it but as I've seen your mileage may vary.

    I don't have DBD but my son so I'll have a look on his pc. Back on 1709 games that ran in borderless mode only (looking at you lazy devs that don't compile fullscreen in) would run in independent flip mode, means they ran like in fullscreen without input lag or the buffering from DWM. You can force it right now with SpecialK. Need to enable flip mode and enable "allow tearing on dwm" or something then it clicks into this mode but I only tried it with GTA5 on Dx11 and it works. Should even work on dx10.1.

    With the help of pcgamingwiki I managed to disable vsync and the fps limit but settings all fullscreen strings in the gameusersettings to zero did not make the game run in fullscreen sadly. Blame the devs who are too lazy to understand the difference between the modes and holy cow the game is borderline unplayable on 62fps on 144hz, at least for me. You could try SpecialK as I said, this can force games into flip mode until microsoft gives us a toggle which could be YEARS away because they're busy making icons......xD
     
  18. RodroG

    RodroG Active Member

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    For having fullscreen exclusive (FSE) on DX11-UE4/3 games (and on DX11 titles in general) you will have to set it everything that is names "fullscreen" to O in the GameUserSettings.ini (few games need to set this file as read-only too) + disable Win10 Fullscreen Optimizations (FSO) in the game/app .exe (Properties --> Compatibility settings). This work in 99% of cases, at least on 1909. However, there are a few DX11-UE4 exceptions (titles that also use and load last an extra Configuration.sav file after launching the game) in which the later sequence wouldn't be still enough in order to enable FSE, and eventually you will have to press in-game Alt+Enter twice (+ press any key/move cursor too in case you want to engage G-Sync fullscreen). An easy way to know if you're running the game in FSE, and FSO are disabled, is to check if your keyboard UI volume indicator is shown and works in-game (or, if you have Win10 GameMode + Xbox Game Bar On, you could also use Win+G to check it).

    Sadly, on DX12 titles, the FSE support (w/ FSO Off) is less common though. Most DX12 games I tested so far, specially UWP ones, doesn't even support the possibility for Fullscreen Exclusive presentation mode. In fact, currently, most of them support Windowed/Borderless Windowed modes only, so disabling FSO in the .exe wouldn't even do the trick here. Anyway, it should be noted that the lack of support for FSE mode in most available DX12 games is NOT due to a lack or limitation of the DX12 API, but rather it will be on the devs side, by implementing the support for FSE in their game/app.

    Here is an interesting article on how FSO would work currently, and how it relates to Fullscreen Exclusive (FSE) and Borderless Windowed modes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2020
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  19. alexander1986

    alexander1986 Master Guru

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    any chance you can share those regedits specifically? just for some of my own testing with Fortnite which is a UE game and can run both dx11/12, would be much appreciated !
     
  20. n3v3rm1nd

    n3v3rm1nd Active Member

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    you will have to search for them as I don't use an regedits
     

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