Windows 10 Exploit Protection and DX12 Stutter.

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by Kolt, Sep 1, 2019.

  1. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    EDIT: There is a thread for this already here:
    https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/p...-individual-games-eg-metro-exodus-bf5.425353/

    I ran across this DSOG article from a Reddit post talking about Windows 10 exploit protection causing DX12 stutter. There seems to be a lot of people claiming that this is a genuine fix to a lot of their stutters for certain games, especially Control. I don't own Control myself, so I can't comment there.

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...rosoft-defender-atp/enable-exploit-protection

    Any thoughts? I am going to be testing this out myself. You can disable Control Flow Guard globally, but I don't know if I would recommend that for everyone as opposed to doing it per game. I think I may try disabling globally on my machine myself for testing, but I feel confident about the security on my system without it. I'm not sure if that's ideal though.. Anyone with some experience messing with this care to share?

    (I did a quick search around the forums and couldn't see a post about this. Sorry if I missed any though)

    There is also the standby list issue here that some say helps mitigates this issue as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  2. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Ancient Guru

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    cant hurt to add a few exemptions to a few games and test in dx12 if your noticing studdering, i been playing the og borderlands remaster and it looks "choppy" to me in spots, not sure if thet is me the game of windows 10 being garbage, could be all the above.

    and not sure of the bl redo is using dx12 at all. and hitman 2 never seemed to studder at all in dx12 crash tons, (related to ansel from whet i can tell), but not playing tons of dx12 games of late.
     
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  3. haste

    haste Maha Guru

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    I wouldn't bet on this. There are a lot of posts over the internet about people fixing their PCs with fairy tales. Most of those posts are total BS or just inexperienced users practicing some inconclusive trial-error tests.

    IMHO the only thing you achieve with disabling these protections is theoretically higher CPU performance in some situations, which could help you achieve the FPS target, but only if your CPU is not fast enough or slightly below the FPS target. It won't fix any form of microstutter, lags or similar problems.

    And for the record, I played with these settings quite a lot, I even have specter/meltdown mitigations disabled to get W10 CPU performance to the W7 level.
     
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  4. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    That's exactly why I posted that here. I don't usually believe in most of these fixes, but there have been some actual good ones in the past (like ISLC/standby list fixes as posted above). I'm just curious as to what people here think as well as opposed to random Reddit users. Maybe this is something useful or maybe it's not. Thanks for your 2 cents though. What did you find in regards to this setting. Did/do you disable it altogether or do it per program? Or is it pointless from your experience? On the subject of disabling the meltdown and specter patches.. do you actually see an improvement there? Most of what I've seen were very very minimal and useless for gaming.
     

  5. SpajdrEX

    SpajdrEX AMD Vanguard

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    Will definitely test this today, I'm for every speed tweak :) I don't care about exploit protection, I'm not visiting any unusual sites, not running anything illegal. Nothing important I have stored in my PC.
     
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  6. haste

    haste Maha Guru

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    @Kolt
    I'm going the opposite way here. I have them disabled globally and only enable most of protections for some specific applications, where I expect some higher risk of using them :)

    I have both W7 and W10 installed for years and there really was some clearly measurable slowdown in disk operations with meltdown/specter mitigations enabled. Disabling all meltdown/specter mitigations returned disk operations performance back to W7 level. CPU performance was almost similar, up to 2% difference, but HDD slowdowns were up to 20% depending on situation.

    EDIT: Because these performance figures are strongly dependent on hardware configurations, I should add that I'm on i7-2600K.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2019
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  7. gerardfraser

    gerardfraser Ancient Guru

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    Anyone who wants to try this I did up a quick guide last year.
    1.Search and Open Exploit Protection
    2.Click On the Program Settings Tab
    3.Click On The + Add Programs To Customise
    4.Click On Choose Exact File Path
    5.Find Game Which You would Like To Try To Remove DX12 Stutter Click Open
    6.Programs Settings For Game Opened ,Scroll Down To Control Flow Guard(Never Use For Global Setting)
    7.Put Check Mark In Override System Settings And Turn From On To Off And Apply
    8.Restart May Be Needed

    https://i.**********/x1spf9Ch/dx12.png
     
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  8. Party Poison

    Party Poison Ancient Guru

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    Ill try this on Control and report back
     
  9. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    I doubt the root cause of this is due to Windows 10 and DX12. These kinds of stutters are almost always caused by real time shader compilation. Some engines handle it better or worse than others, which is why in some DX12 games (ie Gears of War 4) I never saw any stutter whatsoever at any time. But in Metro Exodus, there is stutter whenever HW is turned on because the way the engine handles the HW shader is apparently very inefficient. This occurs in both DX12 and DX11.

    I think most top notch 3D engines farm out shader compilation to worker threads that do it seamlessly in the background or during the loading phase so as not to disturb gameplay.
     
  10. Undying

    Undying Ancient Guru

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    All i heard nvidia users having some stuttering in control under dx12. Any amd user can report the same or this is just another nvidia driver issue with new apis?
     

  11. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    The DX team apparently weren't even aware that some games are affected by CFG.
     
  12. Corrupt^

    Corrupt^ Ancient Guru

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    Testing it out with The Division 2, will know more tomorrow. Had massive audio stuttering in DX12 as well when using Discord.
     
  13. jwb1

    jwb1 Master Guru

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    This is probably placebo. As you get some people saying it doesn't do anything and others saying it does.

    I tried this on a game that stutters and it did NOTHING.
     
  14. SpajdrEX

    SpajdrEX AMD Vanguard

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    I can't say for sure if it's better if I run Warhammer Vermintide 2DX12 benchmark - Extreme settings, stutters are still there but occurring less.
     
  15. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    Like it stated in the original articles, this should only resolve stutters caused by Control Flow Guard in Windows 10. It's not supposed to be a magic fix for all stuttering, but supposedly it will correct some instances where CFG causes problems in certain games. Ironically one of those games happens to be Control. If anyone has Control please feel free to report back.

    I don't think this has resolved any stutters for the games I have right now (ISLC solved my BF5 stutters), but if this is a potential fix for future and/or other games don't you think people should know and discuss this?
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019

  16. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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  17. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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  18. Evileh

    Evileh Master Guru

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    Apparently turning this off prevents the window telemetry service from running properly and disables xbox live achievements...… I missed out on a few because of it.
     
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  19. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    it has nothing to do with any of those things.
     
  20. Party Poison

    Party Poison Ancient Guru

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    This seems to have fixed the stutter i got in control in fights.

    It only ever stuttered in a fight, Just one big hitch. I though it was enemies popping in.
    Ill re enable it and see if the stutter comes back.
     

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