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WIn10 x64 build 17682.1000 --Superfetch is gone--deprecated?

Discussion in 'Operating Systems' started by waltc3, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. waltc3

    waltc3 Master Guru

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    As of my install upgrade to this latest build of Win10x64 beta 17682.1000 from the Insider's program yesterday, I noticed on my little checklist of Things to Do when installing new builds that the Superfetch service is simply gone in this build. I have searched out the Microsoft blogs on this build and not a word on Superfetch being deprecated anywhere--not in a Bing search or a Google search. I suppose I should add that since Oct.1/2014 when I started the Insider beta testing (yes, the Fast Lane is addictive) that I have never installed a build in which the Superfetch service was simply AWOL...!

    Don't know if this is a build bug, an auto-config feature (omitting the Superfetch service when the boot drive is detected as an SSD or an NVMe drive--because I always have to completely disable superfetch right after a new build install because of my NVMe boot drive, anyway--Superfetch actually slows me down somewhat but more importantly it adds unnecessary writes to my NVMe drive), or if the service has been permanently deprecated in Windows in the RS5 builds and beyond.

    I suggested a year or so back to Microsoft that they disable the Superfetch service when an SSD/NVMe boot drive is detected upon OS install/upgrade, but as Microsoft has said *nothing* about this, I really wasn't expecting it...;)

    Anyone know--anyone else noticed this? I still had to turn off prefetch in the registry, but Superfetch is simply gone.
     
  2. BuildeR2

    BuildeR2 Ancient Guru

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    Your best bet is probably to tweet at the team who is in charge of the fast ring builds. I used to turn pre/super fetch off but didn't on my last install. If it is in fact removed on purpose, then it could be saying that is it no longer needed according to MS.
     
  3. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Huh I was under the impression super fetch was disabled when using a SSD (pre fetching still being used though.) but the actual service shouldn't disappear it should just be on manual or simply not run so that sounds like a bug with this particular build.
    Much as I dislike the OS running this thing on boot up for a while and after certain software it does help with speed on HDD's but on SSD's it's probably not doing too much due to the overall faster speed of these drives in addition to seek and access times being almost instant.

    (That and defragmentation I believe is what the OS sets as disabled or manual, trim being used with Windows 7 and onwards instead to keep the drive at peak conditions.)
     
  4. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    Hm. Weird. SuperFetch isn't bad. On my spinning rust system, I configured SuperFetch to only relocate files that are used during booting, and leave application files alone (makes Windows boot faster on HDs.) This is configurable in the registry.

    I'm not sure why they'd deprecate that. SSDs don't grow on trees, you know.
     

  5. AsiJu

    AsiJu Ancient Guru

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    Plus didn't they recommend to keep Superfetch on for SSDs too on Win 10?

    It should autodetect drive type and blah blah.
     
  6. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    AFAIK, the default setup in win10 with SSD is Superfech service set to automatic and in reg "Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters"
    EnablePrefetcher =3
    superfech entries removed (Enable SuperFetch" =3)

    Maybe by accident, they set the Supertech service a hidden one.
     
  7. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    But RAM is still faster than SSD. Not sure about NVMe. After SuperFetch loaded content from (any type of) disk on the background access to that content is faster. Or am I wrong?
     
  8. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    Currently, I don't see how NVMe can come close to BW of modern DDR memory.
    Basic DDR4 2400 BW is 19200MB/s and NVMe is what 2000-3000MB/s max with sustain much lower 1000-1500MB/s, maybe if they ever get more than 4 lanes but still think Ram will always win out (latency/BW).
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2018
  9. waltc3

    waltc3 Master Guru

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    I agree it's weird--as I said, I disable superfetch as a service after each new build install--before this build the last build was installed just last week--superfetch was there, as usual, and I disabled it, as usual--as I've done over the last year, first with an SSD boot and then with my current NVMe boot drive (SSD graduated to the wife's machine.) And last build, my last sighting of superfetch, I was also booting from the same NVMe drive. I was hoping that someone who had installed this latest RS5 Insider's build, 17682, might check his services directory to see it's there for him.

    As it is I still don't know if it's a bug just in the current build or a new feature (Seems like if it was a new feature that turned off superfetch when detecting an SSD/NVMe boot drive then it would simply disable Superfetch automatically.) But as the entire service is simply gone--and I checked the list for superfetch aliases, in case they just renamed it to something else, but nothing seems to fit the bill-- it could well be deprecated! Or, a bug...

    I let Microsoft know about this via the Insider's feedback hub. No response there, either. Thanks so much for all your responses, guys...! If and when I find out what's going on I'll come back here and update.
     
  10. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    Here is reg path for superfech " Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\SysMain"
    You could see if there is data for "start" and "type".
    I an not an insider so I can't check your build.
     

  11. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    Btw, there is another pre-launch option - specifically for UWP apps. Execute in elevated PowerShell: Get-MMAgent
    Here are descriptions
    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/powershell/module/mmagent/enable-mmagent?view=winserver2012r2-ps
     
  12. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    Superfetch and Defrag are Enabled by default even if you have an SSD.
     
  13. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    Aha, so the info I looked up saying it's inactive is incorrect or simply outdated then on how these two and indexing are disabled once the OS identifies the drive as a SSD.

    Good to know, guess as mentioned above there's still a benefit to caching either boot or boot+applications (The default.) for the superfetch function with RAM being faster,especially on more modern systems reaching 2000+ Mhz even at stock configurations.

    Though I did try the above tweak about reducing it to boot and well so far there's not really much of a difference other than the super-fetcher not running as often but I suppose it's a YMMV thing and depending on how many programs you run it can keep more stuff cached before unloading them for other data and overall RAM amount in the system perhaps.
    Even if it's just part of the data being cached games in particular are reaching 50+ GB in file size now so I wonder how much ends up in the cache heh well it does run for a few minutes though often in tandem with the compattelrunner.exe for data collection so that would slow it down a bit, OS could perhaps be a bit better at prioritizing one disk heavy application at a time. :p

    (Probably if the game in question is using preloading for early assets and such that would be the main thing but that can still be a GB or so or more.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
  14. hemla

    hemla Active Member

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    Superfetch is a continuous service, it keeps working in background like antivirus. This means it can start fetching stuff during system load(game/compilation/file operations/etc) and effectively slow everything down.
     
  15. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

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    I don't think that's how it works. AFAIK, it has a task that runs when the system is idle.

    If you leave a Windows system unattended for like 5 minutes or so, you will notice the storage access LED on your PC is going crazy. As soon as you move your mouse, press a key, or do anything that means the PC is not unattended anymore, it suddenly stops. These are "idle tasks" that run when you're not using the machine. SuperFetch, AFAIK, is one of those tasks. Defrag, indexing and Windows Defender scans are other such tasks.

    And again, you can always configure SuperFetch to only optimize boot files and leave normal usage files alone.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018

  16. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    Yes, that should be done as a background process, while the system is idling, low usage.
    You can see the size of cached files in default path " C:\Windows\Prefetch", I have like a total of 5mb.
    You can see the application exe names and its only storing part of data.

    Edit: Info/data in the files could just be a pointer in the file so actual cached size might be totally different.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
  17. DAW40

    DAW40 Master Guru

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    Like some said, you don't need prefetch or superfetch if you have an SSD ; I have disabled them both in registry. Superfetch can be disabled in services while prefetch you have to do in registry and what not.
     
  18. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    i have disabled it for years as such my prefetch folder is empty. it usefull on hdd only system though if hdd is really slow to being with it it wont matter, I doubt it is removed i think it more likely its a hidden service now, you can use Autorun to find out though
     
  19. waltc3

    waltc3 Master Guru

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    The reason turning off superfetch and prefetch is advised for SSDs/NVMe's is because the life of these kind of drives is measured in how many TB's of data get written/erased (write cycle) to them. (HDD lifespan by comparison is simply estimated by MTBF hours estimates provided by the manufacturer--not by write cycles.) Since the SSD's turn on TRIM in Win10 automatically, and Windows now disables SSD/NVMe drive indexing automatically (?), and these drives have no need to "seek" since they are not mechanical with spinning platters, etc., the SSD's and NVMe drives will run just as fast without Superfectch and Prefetch as they will with them--so drive longevity is the reason these things should be turned off--they are simply unnecessary for performance purposes and they decrease the longevity of the drives.

    Superfetch and prefetch are strictly HDD-specific technologies, applicable to the HDD boot drive in Windows. Windows 10 already caches a bunch of stuff in ram (see Taskmanager/Performance/Memory/Cached), independently of Superfetch, so the Superfetch/Prefetch functions are obsoleted by SSD/NVMe boot drive tech. My Windows 10 memory cache is 6.4GB as I write this, but the number fluctuates, of course, in accordance what's running/was just run, etc. In addition to turning off Superfetch and Prefetch if you have an SSD/NVMe *boot* device, don't forget to disable de-fragmentation for those drives, too! It's not necessary and adds significantly to write cycles for SSD/NVMe boot drives.

    I still cannot find out whether Superfetch has been deprecated... I had thought that would be something they'd talk about. However, if it's automatic, beginning with this build, 17682.1000, then that would explain (sort of ) why there's been no announcement--as it has not been deprecated at all, just turned off in the presence of SSD/NVMe boot drives. But that's what makes me think of deprecation--if it was just "turned off" the Superfetch service would still be there, it would simply be disabled. I won't know what the score is until they release the next build--which ought to be in just a day or so. I'll come back after installing the next one and report.

    You'd really think they'd say something about this in their Insider blog, wouldn't you? They publish info like this on every new Insider's build they release.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
  20. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

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    That`s strange thinking because SuperFetch does not create big amount of files on disk. Not TBs anyway. And files in use by SuperFetch are not rewritten frequently.

    PS For example on my work rig with Win8.1 Superfetch folder has 244 files of 39,9 MB. And that was accumulated since 2015 for 662800 files on disk C:.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
    Darren Hodgson likes this.

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