Why is 537.58 still the best performing driver for me?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Damborino, Mar 30, 2024.

  1. Damborino

    Damborino Active Member

    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    33
    GPU:
    RTX 3080
    Every single time a post-537.58 driver has come out, I update it or DDU uninstalled the previous one in safe mode before installing it, and every single time I get worse frame consistency and more constant micro stuttering. Gears 4 and 5 run perfectly with 537.58, and get ever-present frame time hitches with every subsequent driver, and plenty of other games like FF7, Elden Ring, and others I've forgotten over time.

    I know many people were claiming the stuttering and fps degradation were fixed with 551.x and the prior hotfix driver, but that hasn't been the case for me since all these games still routinely perform worse with every driver post 537.58. I'm now seeing some missing UI issues in HFW so I wanted to update again, but I'm sick of going back and forth and getting worse overall performance in many titles.

    What could be causing the hitching and more frequent stutter in ALL of these new drivers? Can any Windows 11 settings be enabled or disabled to alleviate the issue? I'm using a 4080/7800x3D/6000mhz 32gb RAM/gen 4 NVMe.
     
    Serotonin likes this.
  2. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,697
    Likes Received:
    1,973
    GPU:
    7800 XT Hellhound
    Do you have some sensor polling active, especially GPU power sensor? The latter is insanely slow on at least some cards and Nvidia really shouldn't pretend it can be polled like any other sensor without potentially causing stutter. Just witnessed it causing stutter on a MSI 4090 Suprim yesterday, already had that issue with a GTX 1070 Gaming...
     
  3. Disable HAGS if it's enabled
     
    Serotonin likes this.
  4. DirtyDee

    DirtyDee Master Guru

    Messages:
    477
    Likes Received:
    247
    GPU:
    MSI RTX 4090 Gaming
    HAGS is on by default in Windows 11. When I had it enabled it caused random frame drops and stuttering in some games.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2024

  5. Phroster

    Phroster Master Guru

    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    16
    GPU:
    Inno3D 4080 RTX
    Apparently this is still a thing in 2024.
    What games are you running?
    It seems not all games are effected by this issue.

    I was playing Path of Exile (DX12) on the most recent drivers, it was a stuttery mess, with 537.58, frames are much more consistent.
     
    Damborino likes this.
  6. loracle

    loracle Master Guru

    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    213
    GPU:
    GTX 1660 super
    Because Nvidia is implementing crap in every new driver and tweaking things just for high end gpus :cool::D
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2024
  7. Damborino

    Damborino Active Member

    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    33
    GPU:
    RTX 3080
    Sadly can't since I'm using FG in many games, but this shouldn't be the issue unless HAGS is specifically screwed on drivers post 537.58 since it wasn't an issue on that driver?

    I am indeed monitoring power via AB and RTSS because I've had multiple games stay at low power draw for some reason, even though clocks are high and GPU is at 100%. I'm gonna try turning it off but like HAGS, why would it be an issue specific to these "recent" drivers unless they changed something?

    I honestly can't remember all the games where I've had degraded performance and micro stutter because it's been like 6 months now. The most recent ones are Gears 4, 5, and FF7 remake since I was just playing them recently, but I know there were at least 5-6 other games with inferior performance over the course of this time period, that made me back to 537.58 every single time.
     
  8. Damborino

    Damborino Active Member

    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    33
    GPU:
    RTX 3080
    I like the idea but I'm using a 4080 so unless they're doing it with all non-4090 GPUs, that can't be it :(. I know there were PLENTY of complaints on these forums and reddit etc, about the stuttering issues that were supposedly fixed with 551.x drivers.

    The only thing that makes sense to me is that people who were reporting that those drivers did fix these issues, were not playing these games that are still affected.
     
  9. Phroster

    Phroster Master Guru

    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    16
    GPU:
    Inno3D 4080 RTX
    What power plan are you using? It's recommended to use the "balanced" setting. Or AMD equivalent.

    On my system FF7 was a mess, you can fix it however by using DXVK-async and -dx11 commandline argument.

    https://gitlab.com/Ph42oN/dxvk-gplasync
    Download the latest release.
    Unzip the file next to the game .exe.
    Create a dxvk.conf file.
    Write the following into the file:
    Code:
    dxvk.enableAsync=true
    dxvk.enableGraphicsPipelineLibrary=false
    dxgi.syncInterval = 1
    
    DXVK-async might be useful too for other DX11 games.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2024
    Party Poison likes this.
  10. Far as I know yes, drivers past 537.58 introduced a feature called Hardware Flip Queue that's linked to HAGS. However apparently Microsoft's implementation of said feature is half assed so it can cause stuttering problems.

    You can try at least if it helps. If it doesn't then yours is maybe a different issue entirely.
     

  11. octoreach

    octoreach Active Member

    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    23
    GPU:
    RTX 4070
    So you're saying that if I use RTSS OverlayEditor plugin and use the Internal HAL GPU Power data source, it may cause certain games to stutter? I haven't noticed anything out of the order. How would I figure out if my GPU is affected and if indeed this source is slow to poll?
     
  12. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,697
    Likes Received:
    1,973
    GPU:
    7800 XT Hellhound
    Right click in Afterburner sensor area and tick "show profiler panel". If everything's way <5ms, it probably is fine. There's also a checkbox in hwinfo sensor options to show profiler time to achieve the same in that tool. I'm seeing some weird results with hwinfo polling being much slower than AB's, e.g. always 15-20ms for the whole category of a 4090 Suprim, even with all individual sensors disabled. Maybe I'll report that to the dev, seems a bit unnerving.
     
    octoreach likes this.
  13. Damborino

    Damborino Active Member

    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    33
    GPU:
    RTX 3080
    Thanks I didn't know this caused specific issues with HAGS, and it seems you're right as I tested it for a little bit in FF7 and I did have better frame times in the few minutes I tested it.

    Is there really no other way to fix this fully? It seems insane to have to choose between using 7 month old drivers and frame generation that I'm using basically whenever it's available. God knows when or if Microsoft is gonna fix it on their end, but more importantly, why is no one complaining about it anymore and why were people claiming it was fixed in 551.X drivers?

    Embarassing issue to have for this long.
     
  14. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    8,852
    Likes Received:
    2,420
    GPU:
    GB 4090 Gaming OC
    I also feel that 537.58 was the best driver for me but saying something like that on this forum will get one called out for being an ignorant idiot by some who I shall not name so it's not worth voicing an opinion of that kind here :rolleyes: Most games work fine so I've just dropped the subject for now.

    My main issue is still dropped frames in Chrome while watching YT videos (never happened earlier) but it works fine in Firefox so I use that workaround.
     
  15. Damborino

    Damborino Active Member

    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    33
    GPU:
    RTX 3080
    But it's not really a subjective statement unless something really specific hardware/software-wise is causing the issue. Not a single game I've tried performs better on newer drivers compared to 357.58, and plenty of games reliably perform worse. I just remembered that RE4 remake also runs worse on these new ones.

    Turning HAGS off does help but then you can't use frame gen so it's not a solution.
     

  16. janos666

    janos666 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,660
    Likes Received:
    408
    GPU:
    MSI RTX3080 10Gb
    There is a hack to get FG running without HAGS but I have no idea how reliably that might be (the HAGS requirement is probably not arbitrary).
    But the HAGS related micro-stutter went away for me a few driver versions ago (my system performed worse with HAGS only with a few drivers in-between).
     
  17. octoreach

    octoreach Active Member

    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    23
    GPU:
    RTX 4070
    I'm no longer using Afterburner for OSD, although I followed what you said and saw the times, since you can follow even those which aren't shown in OSD but simply monitored.

    Wanted to leave these notes that polling time can also be checked for RTSS OverlayEditor plugin by following the instructions from this post. In my case all CPU sensors were showing 0.0 ms, GPU clock shows between 0.8 - 1.0 ms or more, mem temperature between 0.2 - 0.7 ms, mem usage around 0.4 ms, GPU usage around 0.4 ms, the power reading around 0.5 ms, but power percentage a large 5.9 ms (I don't use it, but beware). These were the slowest sensors, so I guess I'm good even with them active as their cost is not that large.

    Still, I was wondering, does this polling time compete or consume resources on the same core(s) used by the game, isn't the OS or thread scheduler at another level smart enough to distribute this wisely, given enough CPU cores are available?
    Or did you @aufkrawall2 suggest that a slow GPU sensor is blocking the GPU in some way, hence the implication of stutter? Maybe I misunderstood.
     
  18. I can only assume the issue does not happen to everyone and depends on other factors and perhaps it isn't obvious enough for some to be bothersome.

    For me it was really obvious, I noticed stuttering even on desktop with sone 545.xx driver which was the first one I installed after getting a 4070 Ti (had AMD before).

    Changing to 537.58 resolved it. I am now using 551.46 hotfix as it seems to be more or less on par with 537.58 for me and it has support for DX12 ultra low latency mode which 537.58 didn't yet have.
     
  19. loracle

    loracle Master Guru

    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    213
    GPU:
    GTX 1660 super
    BULLSHIT !!
     
  20. Damborino

    Damborino Active Member

    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    33
    GPU:
    RTX 3080
    Do you remember any specific games where the micro-stutters went away not counting the desktop stutter because I don't think I ever had those? I never stayed more than a day or two on any of these drivers to fully test for that, but all the games that were stuttering for me with 546 still do today.
     

Share This Page