Why can't Nvidia buy AMD if they are blocked from purchasing ARM?

Discussion in 'Processors and motherboards AMD' started by Ne1l, Mar 11, 2021.

  1. Ne1l

    Ne1l Active Member

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    It would require a mountain of cash but why not.. If Nvidia aren't allowed to buy their way into not needing to include a competitors product eg an x86 CPU in every server that wants cutting edge AI.

    I know the x86 licence can't be transferred if AMD were bought but doesn't Intel need AMD's x86-64 IP to be relevant in the +4GB world?

    For arguments sake, say Nvidia buy AMD but refuse to allow an x86-64 licence to Intel if they don't give them an x86 licence when it's up for renewal?

    ... more of a "what if and thought provoking question".., fan boys need not reply if they can't see outside their box.
     
  2. moo100times

    moo100times Master Guru

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    I would assume because the other main competitor in the GPU market would be removed, thus creating a monopoly in the high end GPU market which is usually illegal.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/monopoly.asp

    As for AMD, considering they recently bought/merged with Xilinx, I doubt they are looking to be bought anytime soon.
     
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  3. Ne1l

    Ne1l Active Member

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    Intel sell 3x the number of GPU's that Nvidia do, the new XE might even be half decent, so an argument could be made.. Who sells the most GPU's

    I just can't get my head around how it's fair that Intel can continue to lock Nvidia out of x86 but it's anti-competitive when Nvidia wants to buy ARM and not lock anybody out?
     
  4. GREGIX

    GREGIX Master Guru

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    Intel may sell most GPU as integrated. Far away from being high end. Or even mid tier. And their xe may be good, but time will tell. So far they look half decent.
     

  5. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    I don't think amd would just sell themselves to nvidia.
     
  6. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

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    I'm not even sure Nvidia's after an x86 license at all...
     
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  7. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    How exactly would you know what Nvidia would do in the future if it bought ARM? Nobody knows it, not necessarily even Jensen right now if we are talking about 10 years from now. The only thing sure is that Nvidia wouldn't use billions in buying ARM if it wasn't absolutely sure it's a good investment that will pay itself back eventually. The world is full of examples of a company saying all kinds of things before buying another, but just a couple of years later all of the things could be forgotten and ignored. Of course the most common thing is promising jobs will remain, but then firing everybody later, which shouldn't happen with ARM, but otherwise nobody should claim anything for certain. In the first place Nvidia could do a whole lot of things even without entirely locking locking anyone out. They could, for example, demand that all (new/renewed) ARM licensees must use an Nvidia technology based GPU (if it's a solution where graphics are involved).
     
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  8. Ripcord

    Ripcord Active Member

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    wouldn't work ARM only design chips, then sell the IP as licenses; they don't manufacture them. There whole business is base on selling licenses and letting company's modify the basic design to fit there needs.
     
  9. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    If Nvidia buys ARM, ARM will do exactly what Nvidia tells it to do. Some employees might not be happy with it and could leave, but that's it. Although I'm not saying Nvidia necessarily would do anything dubious at all. But only time would tell.
     
  10. Ripcord

    Ripcord Active Member

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    you don't understand if Nvidia Buys ARM and dose what you say ARM will go bust. Company's are only using its IP because its cheaper to Modify it to fit their needs; then develop something from scratch. ARM's whole business is developing generic chips and licensing them, if you remove the ability of companies modifying the IP you kill the business.
     

  11. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    But I'm not saying anyone would remove the permission to modify them. I'm only saying Nvidia would throw in their own GPU tech. The licensees would then be free to modify it if they can. They would pay for it, though. In that case they would be more likely to use it than pay extra for something they won't use, while still adding their own GPU on top of it all. In other words, if they used ARM for anything with a GUI, they would need to buy an Nvidia GPU for ARM license as well. If it's for something where there's no direct display connection, they could license ARM core tech alone.

    It's kind of pointless to argue about this. None of us can predict what Nvidia could do in the future. But lets not forget they do love their proprietary systems. Why wouldn't they. It's just naive to think they would use billions to buy ARM and then do nothing with it. Of course Nvidia would be a whole lot better than Apple, but that doesn't take much.
     
  12. Ne1l

    Ne1l Active Member

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    My thinking is Nvidia would want ARM so they can have closer integration when they do 'couple' ARM+GPU cores together..

    Nvidia has agreed to sign legally binding documents with various countries to get the deal over the line, they can't really bundle in their GPU IP and just charge more - I'm sure competitors lawyers will have spotted that and the agreements would stop that happening.

    However 'if' Nvidia develop a clever 'infinity' or 'omnipath' like interface directly into the CPU that benefits GPU's on a whole new level when they move to 'chiplet' designs 'but' require a separate license agreement to use it, then who can blame them.

    So long as the CPU core IP is available to all and it continues to follow PCIE standards, then let people use that.. however if they want to use the fruits of Nvidia's billions of investment in GPU's and AI then there's a cost for entry.

    2x $6000 x86 CPU's in every AI node is an added cost to the BOM and money 'given' to competitors as nvidia can't make it's own x86 CPU's.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
  13. Ne1l

    Ne1l Active Member

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    Me neither but if it can't design and customise it's own CPU to make it more useful to their needs, why can't it at least make a much cheaper x86 to sit on the motherboard as a co-processor, instead of needing to including multiple $6000+ products from a competitor.
     
  14. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

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    NVIDIA doesn't care at all about x86, and more or less, no one else is either. Getting ARM now, means they will be the "Intel" of the next ~20 years, until people are sick of their crap and move to RISC V, or anything else completely open.
     
  15. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    It's the same reason why Nvidia can't buy arm. It's not complicated.
     

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