Where the VP9 DXVA 2 In The Drivers?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by nullack, Dec 4, 2015.

  1. nullack

    nullack Member

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    So the GTX 960 was released in January

    We still dont have working DXVA 2 VP9 exposure in the current drivers!

    Anyone got any clue as to what Nvidia is planning to do beyond the current silence?
     
  2. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    I might've missed something but where did you get the idea that GTX 960 will even support h/w decoding of VP9? I don't think that it supports anything else but HEVC.
     
  3. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    As far as I know current NVIDIA desktop and laptop GPUs do not have hardware VP9 decoding nor encoding ability.
     
  4. nullack

    nullack Member

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    Its in the hardware. You fellas need to learn how to query it if yoyr interested in such things. Such as this from my chip

    VP9_VLD_Profile0: DXVA2/D3D11, SD / HD / FHD / 4K
     

  5. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    Officially it's not.
     
  6. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    Yep.

    We'll see what happens when Microsoft adds VP9 codec to Windows.
     
  7. nullack

    nullack Member

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    Do you have a source for that? What specifically do you mean eg. There is no plan to do the device driver support?

    What is a fact is that its there in hardware in the 960 it just needs the device drivers from nvidia to expose it in software as dxva 2
     
  8. Anarion

    Anarion Ancient Guru

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    You need VP9 codec that supports DXVA 2 too. I'm not sure if there area any out there. Windows doesn't have VP9 codec yet and I'm pretty sure that FFMPEG (libavformat and libavcodec libraries) for example only supports software decoding of VP9.

    Assuming that the VP9 hardware decoder doesn't have any bugs (GeForce 6800 fiasco...) I think you can expect DXVA 2 support for VP9 when Microsoft adds VP9 codec to Windows 10 - at some point after that happens.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2015
  9. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

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    The GTX960 does not have a VP9 hardware decoder.
    The only thing NVIDIA is trying to offer is a hybrid decoder (just like Intel, they do the same thing on Braswell/Skylake, full support starts in Broxton/Kaby Lake), which partially accelerates decoding using the GPU, but still does a bunch of work on the CPU (ie. in the driver). This feature appears unfinished as of yet, so lets test again in the next feature driver release (ie. the next new main branch)

    Note that the VP9 DXVA2 specification was only released by Microsoft in October 2015, so complaining now that a card released 10 month before the spec doesn't handle it seems rather entitled. =p
     
  10. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    I'm pretty sure that whatever VP9 support NV will introduce will not use CPU and will use the GPU ALUs for all tasks which can't be handled by the NVENC h/w. There are no reasons for them to use CPU at all.
     

  11. nullack

    nullack Member

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    Thanks Hendrik. So for VP9 it will offload stuff like motion estimation, IDCT calcs etcetc and when you have the exposed features in the nvidia device driver I look forward to assisting with testing nightlies of LAV Filters :)

    I was simply unaware of the VP9 spec timing with October 2015 mate :)

    I'm advised that on the Windows side outside of direct show with stuff like LAV Filters, there is a media foundation VP9 accelerator being worked on at Microsoft for use cases in particular involving their Edge browser and VP9 web content. I'm hearing that allot in the industry are upset about content fees with licensing HEVC and new patent pools coming out.
     
  12. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

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    And then you would be wrong. It will be the same as how HEVC is supported on older GPUs. Partially using the GPU, and still using a whole bunch of the CPU.
    GPUs are inefficient to use if you can't use their parallelism, and not everything in video decoding can be performed in parallel. A full hardware decoder has dedicated hardware to handle these things, but if you only implement partial acceleration, these parts are performed on the CPU.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
  13. Yxskaft

    Yxskaft Maha Guru

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    Perhaps this is hard to answer, but how feasible is hybrid/partial decoding, both in general and for the older architectures?
    Nvidia for example only supports hybrid HEVC for Kepler and later, Intel for Haswell and later, whereas AMD doesn't seem to support hybrid HEVC at all (??)

    Is this mainly due to business political decisions or actual technological limitations?
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  14. dr_rus

    dr_rus Ancient Guru

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    I seriously doubt that any CPU which is on the market currently will be able to decode 4K HEVC content in real time. The decoding will most likely be done on the GPU SIMDs in the absence of a dedicated FF decoder and while some stuff will surely run on the CPU saying that this is CPU based decoding would be factually incorrect as the bulk of the decoding will be in fact handled by the GPU.

    To put it in other words - it is theoretically possible for a GPU to perform HEVC 4K stream decoding in real time without CPU's help; it's likely impossible for a CPU to perform such decoding without a GPU's help. So this is in essence a GPU decoding still even if it's not based on a fixed function special hardware.
     
  15. nevcairiel

    nevcairiel Master Guru

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    My CPU can do it today just fine, without a single shred of GPU assistance.
    Any high-end i7 should be able to, really.

    This is why we call it "Hybrid" decoding, since both CPU and GPU are used. There is still a significant chunk of CPU being used, but not near as much as full CPU decoding, of course.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015

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