Where is the AHCI, Northbridge Filter, 3GIO etc?

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by Miken420, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. Seren

    Seren Guest

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    AFAIK the Microsoft drivers are just made up of old versions of the driver AMD supplied. The same would go for Intel I suppose...
     
  2. Muhammad77

    Muhammad77 Guest

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    I didn't understand half of what you said :I ,can you collaborate little bit more

    can some 1 help me please :I
     
  3. Espionage724

    Espionage724 Guest

    Disabling HPET is different for everyone. On my system for example, I notice no difference with it on or off (I can toggle it properly too). Some people report smoother gameplay with it on. Others off. Generally put, you should find out if HPET is on or off, and then toggle it, and see for yourself.
     
  4. Hugo Sanchez

    Hugo Sanchez Guest

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    Things that work best for me, do it this way. Install AMD Chipset drivers (in normal way, double click etc.), version you want (13.1 for example). Next thing, disable those devices (except the ones you use, it can easily be none of those):

    Composite Bus Enumerator
    Direct memory access controller
    High precision event timer
    Microsoft System Management BIOS Driver
    Microsoft Virtual Drive Enumerator Driver
    Numeric data processor
    Programmable interrupt controller
    Remote Desktop Device Redirector Bus
    System speaker
    System timer
    Terminal Server Keyboard Driver
    Terminal Server Mouse Driver
    UMBus Root Bus Enumerator

    Disable under hidden "system devices"

    Motherboard resources (all except one that is on PCI standard ISA bridge, usually first one)
    System board (all of them)

    Don't touch other devices (you can't disable them, but don't uninstall them!).

    And you are pretty much done. Only thing that is connected with it is that drivers for AHCI will be reinstalled, and if you did changed Write-caching policy on drives, maybe you will need to do it again.

    That is correct, even when difference is very small, it is still present, maybe not so obvious on all systems. LatencyMon vs. DPC Latency Checker, I did found something interesting about those two programs on two different systems.

    With HPET (enabled in BIOS), LatencyMon shows kernel latency between 7-12, and with DPC LC 60-90.

    Without HPET (disabled in BIOS) LatencyMon shows 870-913, while DPC LC shows 30-40.

    Interesting thing is, if you look by numbers, it seems that HPET (according to the LatencyMon) bring down kernel latency x10, and bring up latency (according to DPC LC 1.3.0) for about 30-50us.

    After testing it on few systems, I can confirm that on those systems, if latency difference is so huge as LatencyMon suggests, or so small and non beneficial as DPC Latency Checker suggests, you should see big difference in Windows environment.

    Truth is, that there is a difference, and it goes against HPET. When DPC LC shows 30-40us latency (while latencyMon shows around 900) without HPET, that is the time when PC have best behavior. When latencyMon shows 7-12 (DPC LC 60-90) it is definitively worse, it introduce some strange occasional stutters in games for example, and system is not that responsive.

    Ofc. that maybe is not the case on all systems, but I doubt it isn't. Also, without HPET, latency is rock steady, no matter what you do. But that is all tested after disabling those system devices mentioned above (not all are important, I couldn't bother since it have no influence on my use of PC).

    ---I'm currently testing some hidden devices under system devices in DM. It seems that "System board" devices should be disabled, and Motherboard resources except one that is on PCI standard ISA bridge. At least on AMD systems with drivers installed, it seems that results are perfect, still testing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013

  5. Muhammad77

    Muhammad77 Guest

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    I disabled exactly what you mentioned and after a restart my OS BSOD , another restart BSOD again , disabled HPET in bios and logged into safe mood to see if it will log in and it did , so restarted again and logged into normal mode and it didn't BSOD this time

    so now i have everything you mentioned above disabled , knowing that i'm a heavy gamer and my pc is dedicated to online gaming mostly and even offline (currently playing hitman absolution) :p

    So i still need the latest north bridge 3GO filters as i stated before the ones i have are the motherboard outdated ones , 4 years old .. so please some 1 direct me to a link or package that contains the latest so i can extract them :)

    thanks in advance
     
  6. Hugo Sanchez

    Hugo Sanchez Guest

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    My bad, I didn't mentioned that you should disable HPET in BIOS, but on two different AMD systems, it seemed it have no influence (no BSOD).

    On one system, there is no 3GIO driver (replaced with other drivers I guess), and on that system, under hidden devices, only thing that is left enabled is one "Motherboard resources" location on PCI standard ISA bridge, all other disabled.

    On another with 3GIO drivers, disable same "Motherboard resources", and leave one on PCI standard ISA bridge also.


    I don't think you need newer driver (especially if there isn't one), most probably you need to optimize your OS more (disable core parking, ticking both options on "disk drives" under policies tab, turning ON Ganged IMC mode on Phenom CPU, enabling HPC, enabling bank interleaving, setting PCI latency to 32 or 64 depends on motherboard etc.)

    Do that on hidden devices as I said in post above, it should have influence, test it. Let me know if is better or not, it would be nice from some Intel users to experiment and give their input ;).

    BTW, good way for testing those changes is on 30FPS capped games such as Split Second Velocity, or "badly programed" games such as NFS Most Wanted 2005 version. 30FPS capped games should be smooth that you can't tell the difference if you don't know it works on 30FPS (it feels like 60FPS).
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
  7. Muhammad77

    Muhammad77 Guest

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    You lost me after "you need to optimize your OS more" :idea: :idea: :idea:
     
  8. Hugo Sanchez

    Hugo Sanchez Guest

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    You have good tutorials, also here I think under Games section, it is maybe way to complicated and with too much information that are not necessarily needed. But in short, here are few things you can do (in this order):

    Install chipset drivers (from CD, or from AMD site for your motherboard I think u did that).
    Use "High Performance" power plan.
    Go to the device manager, expand "Disk drives", double click on every drive you have, choose "Policies" tab, and tick both options for all drives you have.
    Google for program called "UnparkCPU", and unpark all cores.
    Disable devices in device manager under "system devices" as I said in few posts above (I think you did that)
    Disable SuperFetch (in registry and service) and Prefetcher (in registry)
    Disable Indexing as service and with right click on disk drives.
    Remove TLB bug fix from windows (if your CPU is affected, and if is still present)
    Disable all unnecessary services and startup items (not much, it depends what you have in your system)
    Remove all microsoft visual c++ redistributable (2005, 2008, 2010 etc.) if none of your programs/games use it (very few use them really). If some apps you have use it (for example 3dMark Vantage use it for menu), search for alternative app that don't use it, if some games use it install just for that game as long as you play it, when not, remove it if it have influence on other games on your system.
    Use good drivers for your GPU (you need to find one that is good fro your GPU, I think 13.2 beta 6 and 7 are great for AMD GPU's, but they can freeze some games on some GPU's).
    Set NET.framework to manual (every time you update it...)
    If you don't use "Gaming mouse" google for "Mouse polling rate" and change it to 250 (it is safe for all cheap devices), ONLY FOR USB MOUSE.
    Disable ULPS (on AMD GPU's every time after you install/change GPU driver).
    Do NOT overclock your GPU (it is very sensitive, and sometimes even small changes as 20Mhz can have big influence, test it at least, in most cases there is a reason why vendors set clocks as it is)
    And I think that's it in short.

    For BIOS:

    Disable HPET (depends on system you can enable it, but it is non beneficial in most cases, I found it beneficial for emulating and some "small" games and that's about it, but you get BSOD if is enabled so...)
    Enable Ganged IMC mode on your Phenom CPU
    Enalbe Bank Interleaving
    Do not undervolt/overvolt CPU, do not overclock it too far
    Do not overclock HT, NB, "FSB" (bus), use MP for overclocking
    Do not exceed specification on RAM (especially CPU specification of supported RAM)
    Disable power saving features for CPU/Motherboard
    Set PCI latency as low as you can (you have to test it, some motherboard are better of with 64, some with 32, it depends also on devices you use in your PC = GPU, PCI lan, sound, tv cards etc.)

    Eventually, you can google for tutorials, gaming optimization guides, or read whole thread here (quite amply).

    At the end, no amount of tweaking will fix bad hardware/software, so if nothing works for you, in most cases (for gaming) if is not game you play, it is Motherboard or/and GPU.

    There are few topics considering how consoles are more smooth then PC on 30FPS, and people agreeing on that, THAT IS NOT TRUE, don't follow that logic. For example, test it with this game "Split Second Velocity" (without v-sync, only thing you should see interfering in gameplay is one horizontal line = tearing), it is capped at 30FPS, if is not smooth for you, you know you have problem somewhere in hardware or software, after all those tweaks, if is still not smooth for you, it is most probably hardware problem. It should be as smooth or smoother than on consoles, and it is old game, so most probably your hardware can keep it at max frame rate all the time.

    It is long post, sorry, but you can't put it shorter than this. Whoeer tells you that consoles are more smooth, you can be pretty much sure that he have no clue. Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
  9. Hugo Sanchez

    Hugo Sanchez Guest

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    Finished testing on machine with 3GIO Filter driver. Do the same as on any machine, under "system devices" (show hidden devices), disable all motherboard resources except one on PCI standard ISA bridge.

    That's all above things you all ready done, disable one that is left enabled on 3GIO device. Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
  10. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    I think he is the one lost. :D
     

  11. Hugo Sanchez

    Hugo Sanchez Guest

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    lol, no :). Just every machine is different, and I thought that one was important and logical to stay enabled (Motherboard resources on 3GIO device), but I was wrong :p.
     
  12. Muhammad77

    Muhammad77 Guest

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    :giggle2::giggle2::giggle2::giggle2:

    http://imageshack.us/g/153/devicesk.jpg/

    my devices please tell me "1 more time" -hancock style- what to do exactly :chainsaw:

    Btw is there any chance disabling anything or following your guide might affect my online gaming ? like the true bandwidth of my connection not reaching the game ? i feel my online games are using half of my bandwidth now :coffee::coffee: , i test my download speed and it seems fine but ingame my ping is doubled now and game use only half my bandwidth :littlegun

    Btw i'm using Un ganged mode for ram if that's what you mean by "Ganged IMC mode on your Phenom CPU"

    and this :
    """""""""""Enalbe Bank Interleaving
    Do not undervolt/overvolt CPU, do not overclock it too far
    Do not overclock HT, NB, "FSB" (bus), use MP for overclocking
    Do not exceed specification on RAM (especially CPU specification of supported RAM)
    Disable power saving features for CPU/Motherboard
    Set PCI latency as low as you can (you have to test it, some motherboard are better of with 64, some with 32, it depends also on devices you use in your PC = GPU, PCI lan, sound, tv cards etc.)"""""""""

    I'm like :bonk::bonk::paranoid::help: no clue
     
  13. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    Don't do what he suggested, just leave everything how it was to begin with.

    Btw can you fill out the rest of your specs.....
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
  14. Muhammad77

    Muhammad77 Guest

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    I forgot to add , does parking raise heat levels or anything i do ? because in summer is pretty much really hot that's why i never overclock anything :3eyes::3eyes: :nerd:
     
  15. Muhammad77

    Muhammad77 Guest

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    WHAT :puke2: :puke2: , can you give me more insight please i'm a total beginner :nerd:
     

  16. Pill Monster

    Pill Monster Banned

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    Core parking is a power saving feature and no it does not increase heat. This guy really has no idea.

    Some things like disabling Indexing and Superfetch are reasonable suggestions, but telling you to disable DMA controller and use ganged mode is just wrong......and PCI latency timers do not apply to PCI-E. etc etc
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
  17. Muhammad77

    Muhammad77 Guest

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    Teach me master :eek2::bawl::help: , tell me everything i need :3eyes:
     
  18. Hugo Sanchez

    Hugo Sanchez Guest

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    [​IMG]

    Red marked, disable them.

    For Ganged mode, UNganged is mode that is "faster" but worse for games, you use that mode. In BIOS, there is option and it is called different from board to board, on some boards it is called "Unganged mode" and if that is the case set it to disabled, on others it is called "IMC mode" or something like that, and you can choose from Ganged or Unganged.

    For Internet latency, how do you "feel"? I really doubt there is a chance for that to happen, but everything is possible. Test it with devices disabled as you did on picture + those marked with red.

    If you didn't changed anything in BIOS, you can skip those settings for BIOS except Ganged mode.

    Btw, this is how devices are set for me, and only mb resources on ISA bridge is enabled:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  19. Hugo Sanchez

    Hugo Sanchez Guest

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    Yes, PCI latency timer apply to CPU how much can "hold" device, only reason why I suggested it, it's because lower gives more performance when possible ;).

    Ganged mode on Phenom CPU for games, it is not wrong, it is only possible way to play games without stutter, and performance "loss" is close to 0 anyways :).

    Oh, and I never said that core parking have influence on heat, but on games.
     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  20. Muhammad77

    Muhammad77 Guest

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    Ok done , everything is cool now as you instructed me hope i'm not messing with my hardware cuz pill monster say i shouldn't listen to you :puke2::puke2:

    but still this i don't understand: :bed:
    and this :
    """""""""""Enalbe Bank Interleaving
    Do not undervolt/overvolt CPU, do not overclock it too far
    Do not overclock HT, NB, "FSB" (bus), use MP for overclocking
    Do not exceed specification on RAM (especially CPU specification of supported RAM)
    Disable power saving features for CPU/Motherboard
    Set PCI latency as low as you can (you have to test it, some motherboard are better of with 64, some with 32, it depends also on devices you use in your PC = GPU, PCI lan, sound, tv cards etc.)"""""""""
     

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