What's up with this BitCoin thing?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by naike, Jun 15, 2011.

  1. BigBlockTowncar

    BigBlockTowncar Ancient Guru

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    People have a problem when government employees have guaranteed pay increases in times where private employees are losing jobs, as they get paid by the rest of us.
     
  2. IPlayNaked

    IPlayNaked Banned

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    Gold's value as a commodity is almost nil. About 10% of the gold mined in a year goes to actual use in business and production applications.

    The rest is jewelry and investment.

    Gold has almost no inherent value. Forget what you've been told, it's BS. Gold isn't valuable except in that people think it's valuable and the limited uses it has in industrial applications.

    Platinum is a different story. Platinum is hella expensive because there's so little of it. 20 times more gold is mined in a year than platinum, and much more of platinum's usage is for actual real things, and not hoarding.

    Same is true for the US dollar and every other dollar. People THINK its valuable. The US government has exactly **** to do with that, they just keep everything flowing steadily, making sure that there's limited counterfeiting and that the money supply equals the money demand. Their "backing" doesn't give it value, it gives it stability, which allows people to value it. If anything, the dollar has value in spite of the government.

    Same is true for bitcoin. Bitcoin miners exist only to ensure the security and supply of the currency, nothing more. If people with to trade it, it's because they have found value in it, and the person they are willing to trade with has also found value in it.

    No, truthfully, the only things that will ever hold any real value, regardless, are water, food, and space. Everything else is only as valuable as people think it is.

    The US dollar has value because people know the currency is relatively secure, is stable, and that there are hundreds of millions of US citizens who work for that dollar every day. Those citizens, who are among the most productive in the world, decide to trade their time and effort for that dollar. Their effort, their work, is the value that backs the dollar, not any government.
     
  3. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    I honestly can't tell if you are being sarcastic.
     
  4. HeavyHemi

    HeavyHemi Ancient Guru

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    Actually about 10% goes for investment 'hoarding'. The rest is used in business. Primarily jewelry around 75% the rest in electronics, dentistry and other industry. Rather interesting you're on a tech forum and unaware of the key uses of gold in the tech industry.
     

  5. maleficarus™

    maleficarus™ Banned

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    If you don't know what they wrote then how do you know it was not a biased take for AMD?

    Go read the article. It is just another "AMD/ATi is better then NVIDIA" article. I don't care about bitcoins anyways so I am not biased at all. But from what I read ATi cards can mine more but use more power then NVIDIA cards use. Even though they use more power to mine a bitcoin, which means less income overall [H] still gave props to AMD which comes at no surprise because a few weeks later an AMD/[H] sponsored gaming event was held!

    It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what is going on...
     
  6. bigb159

    bigb159 Member Guru

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    Not sarcastic at all, or you'd get a smiley.
     
  7. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    The reason I don't care what they wrote as I've never liked the site and I'm actually smart enough to read the technical documents that have existed around the web and understand that there is a reason why AMD is faster in this one type of compute function.

    I don't need to read what you claim to be a biased report about AMD, I already know the facts. I don't care what they wrote because AMD's GPU design for bitcoin mining IS faster, and it isn't a conspiracy.

    As I stated before most programs only end up using 3.5/5 VILW shader units per cycle on average, meaning if you have 1 TFlop of performance theoretical, you are only getting 700 GFlops possible now (this is assuming no other inefficiencies when there is as well).

    The way the BTC mining works it uses 5/5 of the VILW maximizing every one of its shaders, it also uses several other types of technology that play 100% into AMD's design hands and opposingly not into Nvidia's. Again, this isn't a conspiracy, simply Nvidia's compute technology is the equivelent to having a few large buckets, which is really good for nearly every other compute/gaming program out there.

    These large buckets are really good for moving large amounts of units, where as AMD's has lots of little buckets (some which I have explained normally isn't always used). BTC miner uses alot of small units, so every time Nvidia's big bucket comes around from a cycle it is only filled partially full, in addition, since not all buckets can do the same thing, Nvidia has to come around for another cycle and fill up only partially again.

    And AMD's design of lots of little buckets, can fill up alot of these small units in multiple buckets each cycle, also, because each of the small buckets can carry different types of things, when Nvidia has to do multiple cycles to pick up the special units, AMD can take them in its 4/5th special bucket.

    I've tried to simplify the explanation into an analogy, but for the most part it is essentially correct. AMD's compute technology isn't as good as Nvidia's for nearly every other compute function - as Nvidia purposely designed Fermi (and successors) to be able to do this. The only downside is that efficiency for gaming vs die size works against Nvidia because AMD has less dedicated silicon for compute and can make a GPU that is smaller and equally powerful on gaming because it sacrifices size of not having as good compute function. (future designs may be different) However, in this one circumstance, the program plays 100% into AMD's design and against Nvidia's because of the nature of its program, not because anyone likes AMD more, Nvidia less, or any type of conspiracy.
     
  8. XL_ence

    XL_ence Maha Guru

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    You should have put a smiley when you said that. Then you'd REALLY confuse him.
     
  9. bigb159

    bigb159 Member Guru

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    What are smileys really good for anyways? :nerd:
     
  10. Elder III

    Elder III Ancient Guru

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    Article aside, the fact is that AMD GPUs (5000 & 6000 series) are better at bitmining. NVIDIA GPUs are much weaker (for this specific, isolated application) and you actually lose money if you try bitmining with them. With the right AMD setup you can at least break even or have a small profit over an extended period of time. :pc1:
     

  11. Rifle_Grunt

    Rifle_Grunt Ancient Guru

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    How much profit do you guys turn over with it- I am back to uni soon and my accommodation has free electric- I am thinking of grinding all day I am out in lectures- would this be worthwhile?
     
  12. Stukov

    Stukov Ancient Guru

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    With a 460, it wouldn't be worth the wear/tear on your card to be honest, even with free electricity.
     
  13. Quixz

    Quixz Maha Guru

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    I have a bad feeling about this.. :leave:
     
  14. Wicky

    Wicky Maha Guru

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    +1
    Wicky
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  15. TekkMarine

    TekkMarine Maha Guru

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    Well..... :pc1:

    Kinda kicking myself now seeing as the Bitcoin is worth £480gbp. If I had saved my one bitcoin when it was worth £70 I could have had a free PS4 or Xbox One.

    Anyone manage to make any moolah after DPR scandal? If I had invested £1000 at the time of the Silk Road collapse, pfff don't even wanna do the calculations of how much I could have made.
     

  16. Violentum

    Violentum Banned

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    I heard about Bitcoins a few years back when it first was hitting the net. Back then a coin was only worth pennies so I did not see the pay off for mining. Also if you do your research you will get the impression the whole market is a bit shoddy at best. It is full of scams and a lot of bitcoin exchange sites closing shop and leaving the coin holders SOL. I personally think there is simply just too much risk but I am not much of a gambler anyways. Also there are a few company's out there that make hardware just for mining so there is no need to even use your PC. They come in little cubes that sit on your PC desk and they cost a small fortune. One that I read could mine 500H and the price was 20K.

    I also read that mining on your own is almost an impossible task of actually finding a block or whatever they call it. So they insist that you join a group of miners which increases the chance of finding this block that is what is worth the money. I also read you can rent spot for $10 bucks a month and let there super computers mine for you, but you have to sign a 12 month contract up front.

    Me personaly I would rather take $100 and go to the casino and try my luck there...
     
  17. TekkMarine

    TekkMarine Maha Guru

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    Dude.... I'm not even talking about mining, Just the fact that you could have brought a Bitcoin for a few pennies and sold it for $700 today is insane. Ive read stories about people that have made 500K+ from pretty much doing nothing, other than buying when the price drops.

    My current question right now is how long do you think the Bitcoin will actually be around for? What possible crashes will occur one day? Will there be an other currency to replace bitcoin? It's success is largely due down to the illegal drug trade on the darkweb.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  18. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    I am no economic expert but the government decides if it is going to print more money. The more money that gets printed the less valuable it becomes, usually resulting in an increase in the price of daily products. The thing is the government has a level of control in the amount of cash that is produced and subsequently injected in to the economy.

    Isn't the whole bitcoin value thing a careful balancing act. If anyone and everyone can inject more bitcoins in to it's economy at any time and without any limit beyond what they can produce then surely the bitcoin will devalue the more bitcoins that are produced? With better tech the amount of bitcoins that folk can produce will just increase, so surely the bitcoin value is on a never ending downward slide? The only way I can think they can prop the value of the bitcoins up would be to make them harder to produce?
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2013
  19. Violentum

    Violentum Banned

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    True but the next day that same coin could be worth 2 bucks. Zero stability!
     
  20. TekkMarine

    TekkMarine Maha Guru

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    Mt Gox regulates the circulation of Bitcoins, tbf I think they've somehow managed to make it irreplaceable by a competitor now that its global success is skyrocketing. Again... this is all down to companies and people avoiding tax as well as various other influences e.g. Silkroad, Sheepmarket.

    Im considering buying one and paying for the monthly mining contract from butterfly labs. My only grip however.... and I can't seem to get my head around this, why don't companies like BL just use that processing power to mine it all for themselves? It just sounds weird that you would pay a company to give you back more money ontop of what your already paying them.

    In the little time that I did some Bitcoin trading, the value it is placed at is actually what it sells for with people. Sure a person would have problems selling a huge amount of Bitcoins in one go but selling small amounts is effective.
     

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