Whats the Human Eye Refresh Rate?

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Saeid, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. xafier

    xafier Master Guru

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    I think he meant 50 hz ;) lol 50 megahurz would be INSANE refresh rates... thats 50,000,000 frames per second! Umm dont think we'll be getting that quality in my lifetime! lol
     
  2. neowar3020

    neowar3020 Maha Guru

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    what? i have 2 flat tvs and they both are 60hz flat, not lcd, and they are fine.

    EDIT: i noticed it says megahertz lol, well i did understand what he meant.
     
  3. Marri

    Marri Ancient Guru

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    if we cant see above 40fps..how can we tell the difference between 60fps to 80fps... etc...
    then for example when cars pass by on roads and stuff how come they are'nt all fuzzy and stuff......
    now u've got me all Confused!!!

    i guess we cant label....the eyes being a 40 framer....
     
  4. heffeque

    heffeque Ancient Guru

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    ok... it's not the same thing fps and speed, although they usualy come toguether.
    Games can either be made to be sincronized with real time, or with frames. Usualy the first kind is better, but it also can bring complications, while with fps it's a lot easier. The thing is, that if it's syncronized with frames, then you will see things move faster if fps are going faster, but when it's syncronized with time, you will see things run smothly when fps match game's ideal fps, but won't notice virtualy ANY difference between that and above fps. There is mostly no difference between 100fps and 1000fps in a game in witch movements are syncronized with time, because any frame between the frames your eye can actualy see, you wil barely notice then.

    Main difference between syncronized with time and with fps are these extremes:
    When very low frame rates:
    -Time Sync: very jumpy, you will see things in one moment here and in the next frame it can be werever.
    -Frame Sync: very slow movements, feels jumpy AND slow.

    When very high frame rates:
    -Time Sync: very smooth, and correct speed.
    -Frame Sync: very smooth and very fast. When extremly high frame rate, it can be unplayable. Try playing a very very old game that has this kind of animation, like a car race game... just press the acceleration button and you'll probably be already smashed against the wall before you know it even started to move.

    I don't know (and I don't think) that I've expressed myself very well here, but I hope you get the general idea I'm trying to give you about it. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2004

  5. V9950Monster

    V9950Monster Master Guru

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    Alright I got bored of reading, so maybe it's already been posted but this is fairly legitimate. There was actually a study done, and the FPS at which we see(They used different terms, just putting it into ours) is dependent upon our surroundings. An average person they found sees around 50-60fps, gamers(yes they actually tested us) 70-100fps(Right around 90-100 they believe our eyes literally can't recieve anymore "data", so even that smoothness thing we all believe in should stop over 100fps). They tested a few other groups, but those were the only ones that I cared to remember. They also led me to believe that if we stared at the ground and watched crabs/sloths or something really slow eventually our eyes would tune down to a lower FPS, but there was a CAP as to how low an FPS we can see as well.
     
  6. Xbrain

    Xbrain Master Guru

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    howerver fram sync games have sometimes a frame skip to adjust them to the correct speed like diablo II
     
  7. Xbrain

    Xbrain Master Guru

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    the problem isn't "data" anymore.
    Imagin an objet at point A that has to move to a point B.
    what the human eye see is like this in real life :
    [​IMG]
    but with a screen we havee the frames and if the frames are too low we get from 1 to 3. the consequence is that the brain doesn't recongnise the movement vector. Only "used" people "see" the movement because their brain make the correction.
     
  8. heffeque

    heffeque Ancient Guru

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    I think that what people here are trying to disscuss is the oposite: are very high frame rates THAT important for game play.
    I only tell you one thing: if you see that it looks ok, than it's ok. Can YOU tell the difference? That's what's in stake here, not numbers like 13.000 in 3dmark!!! Who cares about those... what's realy important is if you like how it plays and looks. That's it.
     
  9. SL2

    SL2 Ancient Guru

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    I believe he just confused Hz with Mhz. :rolleyes:
     
  10. Xbrain

    Xbrain Master Guru

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    anyway the more the better until we get a perfect continuus spectrum like in real life
     

  11. Davy2

    Davy2 Maha Guru

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    I've read alot about this here and elsewhere. I don't wanan reiterate it. There are lots of different things going on at once, and the human eye does not work anything like a computer screen.

    I will, however say this: 60Hz hertz (hahaha) my eyes, and becomes uncomfortable very quickly, or until I raise the refresh rate. (trust me, I'm not imagining it--before I got the NVrefreshtool and loaded up games in windows XP, I noticed it immediately)

    Also, I can definitely tell the difference between running games at 40fps and runnign them at 70fps. I'm acustomed to older games that run better (mostly HL engine stuff), and I cringe when I hear you guys posting about how you manged to get 30fps in farcry, and how exciting it is. I can't stand 30fps. Hell, I don't care for 40 at all either. (playing with fps caps)
     
  12. Elanzer

    Elanzer Ancient Guru

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    I know myself I can instantly tell the difference between say 70fps and 85fps in a FPS game, I haven't really tried higher but then again my monitor would have to be able to do 100hz to make it noticable (can only do 100hz in 1024x768 and below).

    You probobly don't see all 85fps, but it's sort of interpolated.. the more frames that are being displayed the more chances that your eyes will pick up more frames.. my theory is you might see 90% full rate at 85fps, but 100fps might be 92%... not very noticable, but 60fps might only be 80%. Not exact numbers but it's my thoughts on it.
     
  13. Davy2

    Davy2 Maha Guru

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    I think El's on to something.

    Now we just needa turn on vsync between the computer monitor and the human eye so you don't need such high frame-rates!
     
  14. TheReproducer

    TheReproducer Ancient Guru

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    Comparing analogy to digital...isn't really fruitful? :p
     
  15. Marley

    Marley Don José Cuervo

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    Finally someone said it, really the human eye is analog (IOW constant not on off) and computers are digital, even the monitor is digital somewhat as in there is a digital to Analog conversion taking place in the GFX card. It is apples and oranges ppl. The human eye does not see in FPS or Refresh rates, there is not refresh in the eye it just sends the light "signal" to the brain to interpret.
     

  16. AlexJ - UK

    AlexJ - UK Guest

    On computers the refresh rate, visible, is about 70 - 80fps yes it changes from person to person but i doubt many people can tell the difference between 80 - 90 fps. The reason i said computers is that on tv and video and dvd and cinema blah blah they use something called motion blur, they do not use this in computers, thats why when you pause a film or dvd at the right scene the picture is sort of blurred into the next frame using this technique, only about 30-40 fps are needed to fool the brain into thinking there is completely smooth motion.

    Its not to do with how much information your brain can take in, eg 92% at 85fps or whatever its to do with the percieved delay between the images. If your eye can tell that there is a blank frame every few milliseconds then this will appear as juddery flickering, if the frames are in such quick sucession as to not present any (visible to the eye) delay between frames then the motion/ picture is completely smooth. Yes the eye is analogue but it cannot tell the difference between in exceeding fast still pictures and smooth motion on this whole principle have computers and television evolved.
     
  17. neowar3020

    neowar3020 Maha Guru

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    right!! thats the exact explanation, if we want to our games seem smooth to our brain all games shpuld have motion blur, like nfsu, it looks very very smooth at 30 fps and it looks really fast.

    i use that when making 3d animations i use motion blur so the movie looks smooth and you dont need 60 fps you only need 30fps or 25fps to look that ani smooth.

    well said!;)
     
  18. TheReproducer

    TheReproducer Ancient Guru

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    It's about the ability of the images to fool our brain which determines the smoothness.
     
  19. heffeque

    heffeque Ancient Guru

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    what about TFTs! x-D LOL they are not on-off! That's one of the reasons they don't strain the eyes nearly as much.
     
  20. TheReproducer

    TheReproducer Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, I love my TFT. *hugs it*
     

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