What games actually use the multi-threaded SSE supported PhysX 3.0?

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by hulawafu77, Mar 28, 2013.

  1. Valagard

    Valagard Guest

    Planetside 2 uses PhysX 3.X? Wow, I'm actually just really really mad now, there's not a single good reason they could have not let CPU users have all the pretty graphics turned on.
     
  2. trocio2

    trocio2 Master Guru

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    Hi sweetie. I'm full of anger :)

    I'll add something to the discussion: being unable to run Borderlands without physx installed on the computer is just not ok.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  3. Sdar

    Sdar Member

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    So nobody searched for benchmarks Physx vs bullet or havok?

    http://www.codercorner.com/blog/?p=914

    Physx 3.3 seems to be a beast on CPU, they're starting to make things right.

    Edit: Seems that Unreal Engine 4 is using Physx 3.3 and it seems to work just fine on cpu.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2014
  4. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    Havok was supposedly working on openCL based GPU physics, but i havent heard anything in ages
     

  5. haz_mat

    haz_mat Master Guru

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    GPU resources should be used for rendering, anything else is a waste in my opinion. I'd rather see those GFLOPS going towards new shader techniques.

    Many of the results from the physics computations have to be shuttled back to the CPU to update the game state anyways, so why not just leave it at the already under-used CPU?
     
  6. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    ^
    Depends, if its efficient then it won't make any real impact - uses minimal resources and no overhead with useless cycles (re-rendering each particle/object) like old physx 2.x.x did..


    yeah Elemental tech Demo was using physx 3.2? apex particles and it ran very good


    I think it was shown @ PS4 event one time, YT openCL havok PS4 :nerd:
     
  7. Sdar

    Sdar Member

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    I'm not sure if we're gone to see opencl on havok now that it's intel property... probably they'll make everything runs on cpu...

    Bullet physics is nice but they don't have enough resources to improve fast enough... they are working on better threading for 3.x and even some Opencl work but still slower than the current Physx implementation.

    Physx on UE4 runs great so I hope nvidia keeps improving CPU side of physx even if they don't take benefits by doing so.
     
  8. trocio2

    trocio2 Master Guru

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    Is physx tied to unreal engine? In my opinion games that use physx should have an option to turn it completely off.
     
  9. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Ancient Guru

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    I'm pretty sure Intel killed that after they bought Havok. I remember that talk years ago too.
     
  10. BenYeeHua

    BenYeeHua Ancient Guru

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    As I know, Warframe which used PhysX 3 also disallow the user to use CPU for rendering the advanced effect, maybe they(Nvidia I think) wanna focus optimize the code running on CUDA only, so they just remove the support for CPU.
    Or they just said that, We wanna force user to buy Nvidia card, so you can only allow this game to use GPU for advanced effect! :D
    ---
    Thank for the info, if I am right, only the "advanced effect" is only for GPU.

    But ya, every Physic on the game that using PhysX is running with CPU, except the one that don't affect hit detect or Game mechanics etc, which is the cloth and particles, and many more.
    So, for other thing that run better on CPU(or should be run on CPU because the games need to run on other non-Nvidia graphic too, and that physic need to be compute, it can't be removed), they will optimize it very good.

    And lucky it is not a x86 CPU company, or they will just like Intel, disable AVX for AMD etc. :D
    ----
    Yup, so far only some YouTube video showing the effect of it, I think it can be because of Nvidia always somehow biting 1 core or more when using OpenCL with Nvidia graphic, and also the version that supported by Nvidia is 1.1 only.

    And might be it is also having difference bug for difference driver or graphic card too.
    ---
    Based on the UE4 support for PhysX, it is only for GPU compute, so....
    https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Physics/Apex/index.html

    But ya, there are still a lot of game engine using PhysX as their Physic engine, so they will still optimize it for CPU, and GPU as well.

    I don't think so...
    It has been used for Movie as well, so they don't wanna kill it.
    ---
    Just check for Wiki, look like it is still alive, and Infamous Second Son is using it too, which is only for PS4.

    It is just that did the Particle is using Havok or not, which is running on the GPU.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_using_Havok
    ---
    Just a little bit off-topic, as WoT also switch from PhysX 2 to Havok, it may show that the old PhysX 2 might having a bad jobs for optimize the CPU code before.
    But ya, as WoT running better with AMD, so who know. :D
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014

  11. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    Idk, if intel bought Havok then they would implement openCL asap (at least in cpu mode).. I see they're big openCL fans, atm at openCL 2.0 already.


    btw OpenCL @ cpu can be very fast, much faster then physx @ cpu mode.. Bullet is also very fast idk atm but I think its based on OpenCL as well.
     
  12. BenYeeHua

    BenYeeHua Ancient Guru

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    Yup, I agree, and it is less bug than GPU OpenCL too, which depend how the driver perform. ;)

    If it allow to choose which device can run the OpenCL effect, it will be a good function.
    I always dream about running OpenCL physical effect with the nearly idle HD4000+CPU, then rendering with the 650M.:)
     
  13. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Ancient Guru

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    A few years ago (around the time Nvidia bought Ageia) Intel was developing a dedicated GPU. I can't seem to find any info on it at the moment. There were talks that AMD (ATI at the time) was going to use Havok as a hardware accelerated physx solution. Before that deal could be made, Intel bought Havok. It was assumed at the time that Intel was stealing Havok to use as a physx competitor for their dedicated GPU but a short time later, they abandoned it.

    That may have not been the reason for the purchase, but at the time physx was a big deal so it sure did seem like it.

    Edit: it was called Larrabee

    edit 2: Here's an article about Larrabee and Havok
    http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2007/...g-physics-engine-for-forthcoming-gpu-product/
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  14. The Mac

    The Mac Ancient Guru

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    Now that would be interesting, running physics on my completely unused IRIS Pro...
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  15. Sdar

    Sdar Member

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    I failed to find any references about physx being GPU only on the link provided, and I'm pretty sure that I've seen this same sample running on an amd card without any problems.

    Probably there's going to be some effects that you are not going to be able to use without using the GPU but probably are going to be things that you can't do without physx or developing your own solution.

    Even if physx ended being Nvidia GPU only on UE4 you have access to the source code whit the subscription so probably, with some work, you can use bullet physics...

    read this:
    Source
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014

  16. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    I think that havok demo on PS4 ran on U4E @ gppu compute, so it can use more not just physx.

    Usually sw physx doesnt do much its here as a physics engine (no perf impact),
    ie MKKE is using physx but in SW mode for physics simulations.. It still has nice particle show (flying stuff),
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa8xvO16How&hd=1

    in hw level its just a fancy effect that can be inefficient.. It changed a lot recently.. Took them long enough :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  17. Valagard

    Valagard Guest

    https://forum.eternalcrusade.com/th...use-physx-3-x-series.28912/page-2#post-492647

    Start from this post if you want, or read the entire thread, but Eternal Crusade dev confirms he's doing what Nvidia wants, and Nvidia doesn't want them to use PhysX 3.3 on CPU, just GPU only

    But remember, no money changing took place, Nvidia didn't pay them anything, they just pay for millions of dollars worth of free advertising for Eternal Crusade!
     
  18. Spets

    Spets Ancient Guru

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    His post is pretty straight forward, core physics on the CPU, advanced accelerated effects on the GPU. You can't run 500k particles on a CPU or anywhere close to that in realtime, if that were the case we would have had realtime fluid simulations a long time ago.
    If you ever used RealFlow, you'll know what I'm talking about.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
  19. Valagard

    Valagard Guest

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9boF-JZKcU

    Video five years ago from HardOCP done on 7 year old hardware, shows that even that old hardware could do 25K boxes with no effort
     
  20. BenYeeHua

    BenYeeHua Ancient Guru

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    Yup, this also should be HSA about, using the iGPU to compute the physic etc, then use a dGPU for rendering or compute large data.

    Then it is time for ray tracing hardware. ;)
    ----
    Hmm, good to hear about that.
     

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