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WDDM 2.3 vs WDDM 2.4

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Catalyst Drivers Section' started by Eastcoasthandle, Oct 2, 2018.

  1. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    Is there any real benefit with AMD cards going from 1709 which uses wddm 2.3 to 1803 which using wddm 2.4?
     
  2. spectatorx

    spectatorx Master Guru

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    Temporarily because of my soundcard (infamous creative x-fi titanium or whole x-fi series distorted sound issue on 1803) i had to downgrade and install 1709 and i do not see any game changing (pun intended) differences but i didn't spend much time on 1803 so take my opinion with grain of salt.
     
  3. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    1803 has big downside and tiny upside. Upside is that "Gaming Mode" changes give automatically high GPU priority to running D3D applications which have "Focus". (clicked by mouse)
    This improves smoothness a bit and potentially fps.

    Big downside is that you can't really disable it. Disabling "Fullscreen Optimizations" for given app only introduces reduction to performance and possibility for micro stutter. Disabling Game mode or even entire game mode system does not change GPU scheduling behavior either.
    Now someone asks: "What's that downside again?" As they are not doing anything else while gaming, that would require GPU execution.
    In my case, I use OBS-Studio, that uses quite a few things via GPU. On 1803 it can't even grab frames consistently when GPU is under heavier load. On older version, everything is fine.

    There are old registry keys for scheduling of GPU, as well as CPU & affinity for CPU. But there GPU never really worked. MS just returned to that idea, but gave no real control to users. Basically taking away multitasking for GPU from Windows.
    This issue is easily identified to new Windows design:
    - running OBS-Studio (no need to stream/record)
    - launching game
    - choking GPU with heavy enough game scenery
    - observing that OBS-Studio is capturing (refreshing display) between 1 and 20 times per second only
    - clicking on desktop to remove focus from game
    - magically OBS-Studio works flawlessly => No loss of fps in game
    - clicking back on game to return focus to it
    - OBS-Studio crippled again

    Only partial solution is to limit GPU use of game. (lower details/fps limit below minimum fps in game => and that sucks)
    I basically had 1803 where I tried to solve it, then I moved/live upgraded to 1809 (as that was supposed to have some improvements) where it was same.
    So, I downgraded to LTSB. I am sure that I lost few fps in doing so, but at least I do not have to cap it under lowest fps I ever see in game.
    I am sure improvements to general use and multimedia/gaming in 1809 are well worth it for someone who just want to game.
    (Whole list of improvements is not bad at all.)

    But I would rather have GPU priority accessible via Task Manager.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
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  4. RzrTrek

    RzrTrek Ancient Guru

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    I asked a similar question in one of the driver threads about WDDM 2.5 and going to 1809, but never got a reply.

    However I suspect the gaming benefits will be barely noticeable and only add more to the overall Windows experience.
     

  5. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    @Fox2232

    Try this Tweak and tell us is an difference.
    Im using this one for a very long time now, no problems at all in Gaming.
    Also with one click i can have Game Mode ON (but restart is needed)


    Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\GameBar]
    "ShowStartupPanel"=dword:00000000
    "GamePanelStartupTipIndex"=dword:00000003
    "AllowAutoGameMode"=dword:00000000
    "UseNexusForGameBarEnabled"=dword:00000000

    [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\GameConfigStore]
    "GameDVR_Enabled"=dword:00000000
    "GameDVR_FSEBehaviorMode"=dword:00000002
    "GameDVR_FSEBehavior"=dword:00000002
    "GameDVR_HonorUserFSEBehaviorMode"=dword:00000001
    "GameDVR_DXGIHonorFSEWindowsCompatible"=dword:00000001
    "GameDVR_EFSEFeatureFlags"=dword:00000000

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GameDVR]
    "AllowGameDVR"=dword:00000000
     
  6. Yxskaft

    Yxskaft Maha Guru

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    Last edited: Oct 2, 2018
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  7. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I'll keep it in mind when I go to some version above 1809. But currently, it is not really applicable as I have everything running fine on older LTSB which does not have all those fancy components.
     
  8. KyleStilkey

    KyleStilkey Master Guru

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    I've been testing the Insider builds and I'll have to double check but I know with the Skip Ahead builds that Game Mode On/Off is back, I can't remember if they brought that to the Oct build 1809 as I don't have the build on hand.
     
  9. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    It's there and defaults to On I believe, thought Off was the default and on a per game basis the user could use Win+G to bring up the Windows 10 XBox app overlay and flip on game mode support.
    Maybe that still is the case though and this disables the feature entirely instead?
     
  10. AlleyViper

    AlleyViper Master Guru

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    Unfortunately the same tweaks I was using under [HKEY_CURRENT_USER\System\GameConfigStore] to disable hybrid fullscreen systemwide now seem to be failing now under some games in W10 1809 (Assetto Corsa as an example), so I'm forced to disable fullscreen optimizations on the exe files.
     
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  11. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    check this conf.

    "GameDVR_Enabled"=dword:00000000
    "GameDVR_FSEBehaviorMode"=dword:00000001
    "GameDVR_FSEBehavior"=dword:00000002
    "GameDVR_HonorUserFSEBehaviorMode"=dword:00000001
    "GameDVR_DXGIHonorFSEWindowsCompatible"=dword:00000001
    "GameDVR_EFSEFeatureFlags"=dword:00000000

    I have now: like this (everything seems fine)

    This line is changed when Win updated itself.
    "GameDVR_FSEBehaviorMode"=dword:00000002

    Rest in my Registry is the same as before.
    Some new Tweaks are needed cuz' Win resets itself.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
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  12. AlleyViper

    AlleyViper Master Guru

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    I've tried it, thanks. Unfortunately Assetto Corsa doesn't seem to respond to it (even rebooting), while other games comply immediately after changing registry (at least QC, Remember Me). Usually R3E is more problematic regarding these registry settings, but even that one is being forced to run in true FS with the above tweak. Don't know if it's due to the multi .exe format of AC, but it was possible to force it before. Thanks anyway, I'll resort to ticking the exe on it.

    PS: Sorry OP for all this OT.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2018
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  13. mtrai

    mtrai Master Guru

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    @OnnA Could you start a thread since you are much better then I at maintaining threads for registry tweaks.

    Also please note that windows 1809 is on WDDM 2.5 not 2.4
     
  14. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

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    @OnnA NP
    @mtrai And word on the release notes for wddm 2.5?

    This makes me wonder when Adrenaline will be wddm 2.5 compatible? Or is it already?

    Edit:
    Here is what I've found so far:

     
  15. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    The big bolded one is just from Intel's previously pretty beta driver support for Vulkan isn't it?
    Well many of them are but D3D12 6.3 shader compiler could be a new one. 6.2 was RS4 I believe.
    (And hotplug support I think is also part of WDDM and possibly wide color gamut improvements unless that and HDR were already in RS4 and WDDM 2.4 with Intel catching up.)

    EDIT: Though WDDM 2.5 could have improvements to these areas over 2.4 I suppose. I know Intel has been criticized for their Vulkan drivers but also made improvements though the same also goes for NVIDIA and AMD although the info I have is from the Linux drivers which is a different situation from the Windows driver development with it's own issues but also several improvements.
     

  16. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    No, 18.9.3 is still WDDM 2.4 -> checked yesterday for new Features.

    Now 6.0 & 6.1 as new Shader Model (SM) in DX12.0 & 12.1
     
  17. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    You have this already in my Thr. (can't rename it, Very Old thread) here:
    -> https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/fine-utilise-power-of-radeonpro-software-sweetfx-part-2.423193/

    On OP You have links to Various Tweaks.
    Reply 1,2,3,4 is my main for Tweaks in any of my Threads (So it's still in the OP)

    As for AC try to change behaviour of all coresponding .exe files (one can launch another lol)
    It's not Tweak fault, or WinX -> more like AC internal behaviour (If uses D.enuv.o maby it is the cause, who knows)

    UPD. OP is now updated with new tweak for WinX v.1809 -> Re-Do ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  18. AlleyViper

    AlleyViper Master Guru

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    Yes, one needs to set it manually on acs.exe/acs_x86.exe (wich is launched by AssettoCorsa.exe (initial UI) for driving, in the same way as acShowroom.exe to preview cars). The strange thing is that the registry tweak was working fine on 1803 for this game.

    And btw:
    I find the exact opposite on DX9/D11 when they are forced to run in hybrid FS mode instead of true FS, absolute performance seems similar, but stutters more often (could be related to a 2GB Vram card).

    That statement should would be valid when hybrid FS is compared to the old borderless windowed mode (which runs slower and more stuttery), adding also the benefit of less input latency (no forced trible buffered vsync).

    IMHO, MS is only shoving hybrid FS on old DX9/DX11 apps running in true FS so the gamebar can be overlayed on them. The only benefit is instant alt+tabbing as if they were in borderless windowed, and apps less prone to crash randomly while doing it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2018
  19. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Master Guru

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    Last version of the Windows SDK provides API support up to Shader Model 6.4. SM 6.3 is needed to support for DXR, not sure about SM 6.4 except it should support at least some FMA optimization missing in SM 6.3.
    There is not such thing like DX 12.1.

    You can find some very short explanation about SM 6.0, 6.1 and 6.2 on the wiki of the new directx shader compiler:
    https://github.com/Microsoft/DirectXShaderCompiler/wiki/Shader-Model-6.0
    https://github.com/Microsoft/DirectXShaderCompiler/wiki/Shader-Model-6.1
    https://github.com/Microsoft/DirectXShaderCompiler/wiki/Shader-Model-6.2

    Please note that different shader model versions do not only add support for new GPU hardware/driver features but also come along with DXIL syntactic and semantics features.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
  20. OnnA

    OnnA Ancient Guru

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    DX12.1 is Maximum feature level ( LEV 3 Tiers) for DX12 Library
    -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_levels_in_Direct3D

    And Yes there are some new Shader Model Libs.
    -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Level_Shading_Language

    Even if you want to find some more about it, it will be avaible when Next-gen DX12.1 Consoles Hit the market.
    Now it is all DX12.0 Feature up to 11_3

    Also is a dot & dash
    12.1 or 12.0 is a whole set for DirectX (all up to)
    But 11_1 or 11_3 is a Specific Features Level - IMO for backwards compatibility.

    Maby JonasBeckman can elaborate on this more.
     

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