VSync and mouse lag

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by ReBeL, Oct 16, 2007.

  1. ReBeL

    ReBeL Ancient Guru

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    I put this in the General Hardware section because it could apply to both Nvidia and ATi GPU owners, and there is no section for "Videocards - General" or whatever. I guess you can move it to somewhere else if you think it doesn't belong here. I thought about putting it in the "Games" section, but it's not really specific to one game or type of game, so I'm not sure. Anyway....

    Do any of you use VSync without the side effect of some mouse lag? I'm really disappointed about this. My games tear like mad with VSync disabled. It does not matter if I lock the fps at 60 either (UT3 is locked around 60 fps for example). If Vsync is off, it tears bad. No matter what Forceware version I have used. I have a Logitech MX510 mouse.

    I have tried many things to fix this problem including the following:

    - Force Triple Buffering (did nothing)
    - Change Vsync pre-render limit to "1" (seemed to improve barely a little bit at first, but I think I was just imagining)
    - Turn Mouse Smoothing off in game (this actually makes it worse)
    - Install Logitech mouseware (made it worse also)
    - Tried everything in both XP and Vista (nothing worked)
    - Tried different video drivers (same results)

    There are two things left that I haven't tried yet:

    - Hook the mouse up via PS/2 instead of USB. I lost the USB to PS/2 adapter I had before, but I have acquired one here at work that I'm going to try tonight.

    - Buy a new mouse.

    Right now I'm just putting up with the tearing. Even though it looks bad and is quite distracting, I'm still more accurate with my aim because the mouse doesn't lag.

    If anybody has any ideas they think might work to fix this, I'm open to them. I think I've pretty well covered everything though, aside from the last two options I mentioned. My question to those of you who don't get any mouse lag with VSync, what mouse are you using?
     
  2. -Ruin-

    -Ruin- Maha Guru

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    Ive been trying to figure it out for years, with no luck. I just only use it when im playing anything except an FPS.
     
  3. TheHunter

    TheHunter Banned

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    i had this lag in Starship troopers without v-sync, if i turned it on omg no comment lol:O; that was with my old gpu 6600gt, but now there isn't any lag, even with v-sync to on, strange although i did changed my mouse in this time too, might be both that influenced on this muse lag (i have Razer Copperhead). Well mostly helped the new gpu in my case. What mouse are you using?
     
  4. John

    John Ancient Guru

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    You have to use D3D Overrider which is included with RivaTuner to enable triple buffering in Direct 3D. Try that.

    I use vsync in every game I play, because as you say the tearing is dreadful without it. I have not noticed any mouse lag at all, ever. I've always used D3D Overrider though.
     

  5. ReBeL

    ReBeL Ancient Guru

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    Yeah that's how I tried to force Triple Buffering. I'll double check it again though, because I read that Triple Buffering was supposed to do away with the need for VSync. I think I have tried using D3D overrider with VSync on at the same time, but I'm not totally sure right now. I'll certainly double check as soon as I get home tonight.
     
  6. John

    John Ancient Guru

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    No, it's the other way around. You have to use D3D Overrider/triple buffering along with Vsync. Without triple buffering your framerates will cut in half if they don't reach the desired value of your monitors refresh rate. Ie, if you use 60Hz and your computer isn't able to maintain 60FPS, it'll cut in half, which is 30FPS. Something along the lines of that. In any case vsync becomes a huge performance brake if used without triple buffering.
     
  7. ReBeL

    ReBeL Ancient Guru

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    I see exactly what you're saying. Thanks.

    That doesn't sound like it will fix the mouse lag though. I mean, I get a solid 60-62 fps in UT3 demo (it's supposed to cap at 60 fps). It lags all the time; not just when my framerate dips below the refresh rate. I'm not talking about horrible lag to where the screen takes over half a second to catch up with me. It's not much, but it's quite enough to notice and adversely affect my aim as well. I can easily tell a difference in the mouse's response time when VSync is turned off, put it that way.

    It's still worth a try though, and I'll do it when I get home.
     
  8. ReBeL

    ReBeL Ancient Guru

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    No, it didn't work.

    I guess I paid around $1,200 for UT3 to look like sh*t then. My aim sucks with VSync enabled. So I have to play with choppy VSync.

    I don't know if buying a new mouse will help or not. I switched to PS/2, by the way, and it's the same crap.

    :bang:
     
  9. John

    John Ancient Guru

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    Does this happen in all the games you've tried?
     
  10. ReBeL

    ReBeL Ancient Guru

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    Yes, but I'm worse off in UT3 because it's faster with heavier gravity and requires more precision/response from the mouse. The tearing with VSync disabled alse seems to be a bit worse than other games....UT2004 for example.
     

  11. XPownz

    XPownz Banned

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    Guys LCD screens with vsync on will give you 60hz and there will be mouse lag. Only way to fix this soo its smooth and instant movement, is to change the refresh rate to 85hz , BUT, LCD screens or most anyhow only do 60hz. thats why most pro gamers still use CRT screens.
     
  12. XPownz

    XPownz Banned

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    I don't game on LCD, and never plan on doing so. You can try getting a 85hz 1900x1200 LCD , which would cost a arm and a leg.
     
  13. ReBeL

    ReBeL Ancient Guru

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    I'm going to try to bring CRT from the office tomorrow and see how that works out.

    I guess I'm gonna have to sell my 20" wide screen LCD. I poured too much into the rest of the system to play UT3 competitively only to be held back by my stupid monitor.

    The tearing is just awful. I can't stand it. And I can't keep up with opponent's movements with VSync on. It sucks. I don't wanna go back to the 100 lb CRT that takes up like 50 squared feet and hogs electricity. That's what I'll have to do though, because I'm already used to large resolutions on the desktop, and I don't think I wanna go back to 1280x1024 again. 1600x1200 on 19" is too much. So it looks like a 21" gorilla for me.

    We got some cheap old 17" monitors sitting at the office though, so I'll make sure the monitor is the problem first before I make any hasty decisions.
     
  14. XPownz

    XPownz Banned

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    Ya ReBel good stuff,,, your gonna love it on CRT, let me know how things work out. great
     
  15. ReBeL

    ReBeL Ancient Guru

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    CRT didn't fix the problem. Tried different resolutions and refresh rates, 65, 75 and 85 Hz.

    I have gotten the tearing down to a tolerable level by changing the "MaxSmoothFrameRate" value in the .ini file. MaxSmoothFramerate=60.30 is what it's on now. It's not ideal by any means, but that seems to be the best I can do.
     

  16. ReBeL

    ReBeL Ancient Guru

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    I FIXED IT!!!

    I turned VSync ON and made the MaxSmoothFramerate=59.90 in the .ini file. Game runs perfect now. No tearing, no mouse lag. Awesome. I guess if the SmoothMaxFramerate (=62 by default) is higher than the monitor's refresh rate (60.1 Hz), then it causes mouse lag. Go figure. I just never tried the combination of enabling VSync and making the MaxSmoothFramerate lower because I thought the mouse lag was all due to Vysnc itself. In a last ditch effort, I decided to try it and boy am I ever glad!

    Thanks to all who tried to help, I appreciate it!
     
  17. Bo_Fox

    Bo_Fox Active Member

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    How strange.. but I must mention that Vsync does bring slight mouse lag. It could be less than 8ms.

    The same goes for enabling AFR mode when using SLI or Crossfire (SFR gets rid of that noticeable input lag). Triple Buffering brings the worst mouse lag, sometimes up to 32ms total depending on the refresh rate (if as low as 60Hz).
     
  18. Pablo

    Pablo Ancient Guru

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    Mouse Lag

    Hi guys,

    Ive upgraded sometime back now to a dell 2407 24" monitor (the old version).

    I also purchased an 8800gtx card.

    The dell monitor gives terrible tearing, i have to run vsynced at 60hz to get a smooth(ish) fps. However ive not heard anyone say a bad thing about this monitor, i find even the video overlay and motion is poor compared to my old viewsonic vx700 (paid £800) when this came out

    Therefore i have to lower my graphical detail in games to achieve a constant 60fps.

    By upgrading to new kit i seem to have gone backwards.???

    When i had my 1800xt card and 17" monitor i was not able to get a high frame rate as i can with my 8800gtx card, however the monitor had no tearing and the x1800s lower frame rate seemed smoother, as it was lower but more constant.

    I also get mouse lag.

    Ive been reading the posts and other people seem to have issues.

    Have other people had this problem with large lcd screens, if so I will be a little happier to know my hardware is ok and its a common problem??

    We know the Nvidia drivers are only beta etc, but heh £500 on a gfx card and 7months or so and imm still having issues.
    Maybe the 9800gtx will be better??
    Any comments please?
     
  19. identity111

    identity111 New Member

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    This is the fix I believe.

    If your mouse lag is not due to anything other people have mentioned, as in mouse drivers, monitor, wireless, acceleration etc, and it ONLY happens when you turn vsync on, then this is the solution:

    I play couter strike 1.6, so i'm gonna use it as the example.

    Whatever your monitor/desktop's refresh rate is right now, go into the game and set the game's fps_max at 0.01 LOWER than your desktop's refresh rate.

    For example, I'm using a Samsung 216BW LCD, desktop resolution is at 1680x1050 @ 60Hz, with vsync on, go into the game (CS in this case) and type fps_max 59.9 in console (0.01 lower than 60). That's it.

    I have a Radeon HD 4870 1GB video card, so I prefer vsync on for smooth images, and the 59.9 fps doesn't matter, cuz it'll never drop below that in the game for me with this card, as long as the fps is consistant i'm fine with it.

    If you want higher fps with your vsync on, then you have to lower your desktop resolution until u get one with the refresh rate you like, be it 75hz or 85 hz, and do the same in the game, 0.01 lower than that value.

    I suppose this is the same for other games, as long as u can find the fps refresh rate option in your game.

    IF THIS POST HAVE SOLVED YOUR PROBLEM, PLEASE DO ME AND OTHER PEOPLE IN NEED A FAVOR AND REPOST IT IN ANOTHER FORUM WHERE SUCH ISSUES WERE ASKED. I spent countless hours trying to find solutions to my problem, and none of the forums/pages/ blogs seem to provide an answer. I want this to get out there. Help people like you and I.

    ?identity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2008
  20. PurpleSkyz

    PurpleSkyz New Member

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    AT LAST! this has been doing my head in for ages! the 59.9 solved it for me in quake 3, as well as disabling triple buffering, thank you all.
     

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