Vista Ultimate x64 RAM question

Discussion in 'Operating Systems' started by AllShallPerish, Feb 21, 2008.

  1. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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    I can't speak for anyone else's system; but, on mine, I'm getting quite a noticable increase in performance with 8gigs...and they were so damn cheap - I had to buy them. :banana:
     
  2. Skiddywinks

    Skiddywinks Ancient Guru

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    I didn't think 8GBs was recognisable...

    So I'm assuming only 64 bit OS's can register that much RAM, and that the only real RAM limit you will encounter is your mobo's limit (assuming a 64 bit OS)?
     
  3. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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    That's right. My MB only supports 8gig; so, I guess I'll have to suffer with that! ;)
     
  4. Haha!

    you didn't answer my question though, how much ram is being used on your machine? What's the maximum you've seen used out of those 8 Gbs?
     

  5. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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    ATM; its using 20%; so, I've got lots of room to play.
     
  6. KevKiev

    KevKiev Maha Guru

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    Randy, I don't mean to belabour the point, but you noticed the performance increase immediately with the RAM increase? You didn't do anything else at all?

    This is rather fascinating. I was thinking of going up to 8GB but I heard/read that it would be pointless. And the explanations made a lot of sense. But if you noticed an immediate gain without any other changes 'cept for the 8GB's there's gotta be something there, no?
     
  7. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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    More RAM is "pointless"; Vista is "useless"! Yeah; I've heard all that crap too.
    AAMOF; yes, I did notice the difference right away. Everything is faster...apps, startup/shutdown. Everything is just snappier than before. I've said it for years - you can't have too much RAM. ;)
    You have a similar MB there. It should do well with 8gig.
    BTW: I cut my swap file down so I could use more of the RAM. ;)
     
  8. Zer0K3wL

    Zer0K3wL Banned

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    vista ultimate 64 reconises up to 128gb ram actualy ;>
     
  9. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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    If you have a server board. ;)
     
  10. KevKiev

    KevKiev Maha Guru

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    Okay, I'm pretty jazzed about this so I spent the last couple hours ingesting all things Vista, RAM, SuperFetch, Page/ Swap Files.... etc etc. All the while keeping in mind this 8GB thing. Randy, please bear with me as I try to wrap my head around all this, but could you tell me:

    1) How big was your swap file and how big is it now? 2) Did you consider setting it to zero? 3) Do you think that swap file trimming could, by itself, have caused at least a chunk of that performance increase?
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008

  11. Animatrix

    Animatrix Ancient Guru

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    With 8GB of RAM you can run without a page file better then you can if you have 4GB or 2GB or 1GB. It is nothing more then the logical out come of how the system uses the page file. On the other hand with it disabled you force things to remain in memory otherwise paged out to the page file, and memory management wise this can be counter productive.

    I haven't seen any benchmark definitively showing any real performance gain by disabling the page file, what i have seen is plenty of issues caused by it. I think most sane IT people would say to optimized the page file all you want but do not disable it. Personally i need to have a small page file on the boot partition so i can look at any crash dumps, the real page file i keep on a separate drive "away" from the OS or software disk (to improve read/write).


    Yes the system will keep trying to use as much RAM as it can or as needed, within the fairness principal. Also as i pointed out the numbers are not as clear as you might think, see Available Memory and The Standby list.

    Edit: To give an example; Notepad.exe would go to the Standby list, any text written in Notepad is private data and that goes to the Free list, it will get zeroed by the Zero list before it is allocated again, as all allocations are done from zero paged pages (zeroing pages is a security measurement).

    On Vista you have page priorities as well (not found on XP).

    Not sure i really answered your question, but i sort of didn't get it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  12. KevKiev

    KevKiev Maha Guru

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    Yeah, though I read a lot of blogs about increased performance I never saw one objective measure. Sure was a lot of anecdotal evidence though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  13. KevKiev

    KevKiev Maha Guru

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  14. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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    When I first installed my 8gigs (from 4); Vista set the PF to 8gigs! I've since set it to 600mb min and 1500mb max.
    IMO; never disable your swapfile completely as there are still some programs that insist on the PF and Windows just seems to like it - big or small!
    By making the PF smaller, it forces Vista to use the RAM more; which of course, is faster.
    With DDR2 RAM being so cheap; I think anyone with a high-end system would benefit by having 8gigs - and it certainly won't hurt anything...assuming the MB is up to the task. ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2008
  15. KevKiev

    KevKiev Maha Guru

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    Good info thanks. Geez, I should check my PF, I wonder if it just mimics whatever RAM is there. But, yeah, I've heard enough here to keep away from ditching it altogether.:paranoid:

    Regarding that little quotation above - here's something a bit off the wall I thought of after seeing that Digital Storm actually has an option for round cables to increase airflow inside the case. (I guess o/w you get flat?) Though I guess it would vary greatly rig by rig, do you think the extra sticks could impede airflow in any significant way? (My rig is gettin' pretty stuffed.)
     

  16. troop

    troop Active Member

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    I am running 8GB on Vista x64 SP1 for about a week now. And it is filled up completely. (AKA: 0MB 'free' RAM) Thats a good thing, because if you need something (give Vista some time to learn your habbits = Superfetch ON) it is already there - and your overall experience increases. Snappier? Definetely! (coming from 2, then 4GB)

    Vista will startup and load resources into RAM on priority (of use) basis. Everything system first; you will see variable amounts used depending on system. Here = ~700MB. During the course of the next ~15 minutes, Vista loads up user resources (AKA: most frequently used programs) on an low priority backround task, until the full 8GB are in use. So there.

    Once you install new programs/start using them frequently, Vista Superfetch will 'relearn' your usage and adjust its program caching priority numbers. I must say, this works really well.

    I've experimented a bit with no/paging file, and finally settled for:

    256-256MB min/max on C: RAID 0
    2048-8192 min/max on D: Raptor

    Reason beeing: Currently, most apps/games are still a) 32-bit b) *depending* on this pagefile; or, if its not present, failing for various degrees. Yes, some programs dont have problems at all, but most still 'ask' for it, to operate correctly.
    You *may* experience a lot of program crashes, if you disable it;..and blame your system/drivers for it.
    If in doubt, and yes, even with 8GB RAM, find the values for the pagefile that works best for your system and *leave it on*
    No trouble whatsoever with the programs *you* use? Then by all means, try to switch it off. For me I decided to leave it on for stability reasons. :)
     
  17. Keitosha

    Keitosha Ancient Guru

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    Yes, i also noticed a huge performance increase. I would never go back to systems with less than at least 4GB. Everything loads faster, smoother and is more responsive.

    My idle RAM usage is around 1.8 - 2.0GB.

    Here's a screeny of a freshly installed Vista Ultimate 64 + all current updates & SP1 RTM. I've also updated all the drivers of my hardware. (keyboard, webcam, scanner, printer....)

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2008
  18. Animatrix

    Animatrix Ancient Guru

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    Would you maybe mind scaling it down a bit or thumbnail it ?

    Large pics like that messes with the text wrap. I know it depends on the resolution of your desktop but many people use 1024*768 and with that resolution it is quite bad.
     
  19. KevKiev

    KevKiev Maha Guru

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    I just spoke with the rep from where I got my rig and mentioned that I was thinking about increasing to 8GB. He said that, ignoring the issue of increasing current performance, having 8GB would seriously compromise my ability to overclock anything should I want to get into that. (Which I do.)

    Without getting into details, my confidence in things he tells me has been somewhat shaken over the past couple days. In all the things I've read about the 8GB issue, I haven't come across that.

    Any thoughts?
     
  20. troop

    troop Active Member

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    General thoughts.

    As of yet, this is only just the beginning of jumps to the 8GB bandwaggon in the desktop area.
    You are using 4x2GB, likely dual sided non-error correction modules.
    Could be a lot of hit 'n miss involved to find the correct mainboard/BIOS version/modules mixture to maintain stable operation *outside* specs when moderately to heavily overclocked. (just example: Corsair and G.Skill modules may work with *your* setup, Patriot, Mushkin, OCZ or others just refuse to remain stable)

    Did not try myself as of yet, running stock. Would need better cooling on my 'heater' first. No need right now.
    :)
    If in doubt, give it another 3-6 month and then decide.
     

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