VCCSA, VCCIO & You

Discussion in 'Videocards - AMD Radeon Drivers Section' started by Eastcoasthandle, May 14, 2020.

  1. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,664
    Likes Received:
    380
    GPU:
    Nitro 5700 XT
    Ok not you but Radeon Software using an Intel PC.

    I was told a long time ago that in order to lower temps and get the best out of your memory controller it's best to reduce VCCIO and VCCSA voltage. Don't leave it on Auto as it was too "high".

    Well as it turns out VCCIO is not the memory controller, per say. I've found this definition on what they are:

    Post Sandybridge the VCCIO is now IO A and IO D.

    VCCSA controls voltage for the control unit which includes: memory, arithmetic and logic unit and input and output devices

    The gist is that VCCIO/VCCSA wasn't what I was told/read at the time and I was lowering voltage for it needlessly.

    A lot of information but I'm getting to the point. When I reduced the voltage of both I noticed that Radeon Software would be "iffy" (inconsistent). I would have delays in getting screenshots. Delays in recording game play.

    I also noticed that even when I capped frame rates every once in a while it would fluctuate. Radeon Software wouldn't show up or take a 10 or so seconds to show up after I exited out of a game. I would have trouble using Instant Gif & Instant Replay. I would notice redcued fps in game when played more then once. Odd mouse cursor movements which had me switching dpi.

    When I returned the voltage back to "Auto" in the bios everything worked just fine. Radeon Software pops up every time regardless if it's after a game or otherwise. Instant recording, instant snapshots of game play, etc. FPS have been locked and hasn't moved each time I play. I haven't bothered the dpi on the mouse. Overall things were "snappy" and responsive.

    I cannot explain the correlation I can only explain the results. But there is nothing wrong with Radeon Software in and of itself. It works for me. Sure, sure I'm still waiting for Video Profile fix. But other then that, so far it's been behaving like new.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    Undying and Caenyss like this.
  2. Vlooi

    Vlooi Active Member

    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    3
    GPU:
    Radeon vii
    Very interesting. I've also been lowering these voltages...
     
  3. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,664
    Likes Received:
    380
    GPU:
    Nitro 5700 XT
    Here is what an admin said over at Asus

    https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...to-Brand-new-to-overclocking/page2#post761001


    https://rog.asus.com/forum/showthre...to-Brand-new-to-overclocking/page3#post761211
     
  4. toyo

    toyo Master Guru

    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    166
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 1070Ti 8G
    Those are set to horrendous levels on my MSI Z370 when I use XMP. They have 0 impact on performance or anything that relates to apps/OS behaviors in my case. Since my 8700k runs stable with the SA/IO at 1.15/1.10V, I just manually decreased them to that, it was like 1.32/1.25V or something.
    If you manually tune them, you'll have to stresstest, as you can easily make the PC unstable, from apps crashing to BSODs. And that can happen not just for too low SA/IO, but for too high (that was my case, but I have very weird RAM that needed a LOT of manual tuning to stabilize as it was not on the QVL).
     

  5. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,664
    Likes Received:
    380
    GPU:
    Nitro 5700 XT
    It depends on the chip though. 1.1v and 1.2v might be to low for some.
    But when I say low it doesn't equal instability as in rebooting, not operating. It's slow, inconsistent and causes delay kind of thing. When it's really low you can't cold nor warm boot without multiple tries.
    As I mentioned earlier everything would be working fine. But after exiting a game and trying to open Radeon Software it would take a long time. Prior to playing a game it would open up within the normal time frame. Odd mouse movements that weren't precise, etc.

    It's those little nuisances that made me just use Auto. Some may have a good chip were 1.2v allows for 3600Mhz. Good for them, but that's more an outlier IMO. And per the Admin of Asus nothing wrong with using Auto.
     
  6. MaCk0y

    MaCk0y Master Guru

    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    289
    GPU:
    GB 5700XT Gaming OC
    I have mine set as 1.15 and 1.2.
     
  7. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,664
    Likes Received:
    380
    GPU:
    Nitro 5700 XT
    What happens when you set it to auto?
     
  8. MaCk0y

    MaCk0y Master Guru

    Messages:
    820
    Likes Received:
    289
    GPU:
    GB 5700XT Gaming OC
    1.35 and 1.3
     
  9. Caenyss

    Caenyss Active Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    14
    GPU:
    RogStrix Vega 56 OC
    When I first got my 8600k and Z370-F Gaming I had a lot of instability issues simply running the XMP profile. It took me one month to finally figure out what was happening.

    When I left those 2 settings on Auto the values would go way too high, around 1.3 for both.

    Then I went ahead and set them to the "Standard" setting that was showing up on the BIOS, which is way below the Auto setting and since then I've never had another system crash.

    upload_2020-5-16_13-8-4.png
     
    Eastcoasthandle and toyo like this.
  10. toyo

    toyo Master Guru

    Messages:
    323
    Likes Received:
    166
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 1070Ti 8G
    Yeah, similar experience with mine above with a 8700K. XMP is just an OC, it can be stable, or not. Overvolting SA, IO and even the DRAM voltage can produce instability. Fought with this for about a year on my system, endless runs of prime95 Blend to test for stability, because I would get some RAM related BSOD once/month or so, games would sometimes crash etc. After I fixed these voltages all stopped, rock solid ever since.
     
    Caenyss likes this.

  11. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,664
    Likes Received:
    380
    GPU:
    Nitro 5700 XT
    I will test that to see what happens.
     
  12. FR4GGL3

    FR4GGL3 Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    5
    GPU:
    Vega 64 LC
    This!
    My Z390 Board does exactly the same. Please do not set it to "AUTO" by using XMP. Always set it manually. High Voltages like this might ruin your CPU as soon as you put heavy load on it. I was lucky that I did check the UEFI instantly. In my case it was only a few seconds without load and on water cooling. But I also needed to raise those Voltages a little notch above the standard because my Board seems to drop those voltages a bit (0.946V for VCCIO and 1.046V for VCCSA). By raising it a notch, I get a steady 0.957V and 1.056V as they should be. I also had to do this to stabilize my machine while undervolting my 9900K at the VCore (-0,055V).
     
  13. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,664
    Likes Received:
    380
    GPU:
    Nitro 5700 XT
    Other then believing that Auto is high what evidence are you presenting that it will ruin your cpu?
    We already know it's 1.2v/1.3v on auto. But if, for example, Asus is saying it's ok, how are you refuting the manufacture of the mb?
     
  14. Caenyss

    Caenyss Active Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    14
    GPU:
    RogStrix Vega 56 OC
    It's been somewhat said between users (mainly on Asus forums) that Asus tends to "play it safe" when it comes to Auto settings and goes for higher than maybe-necessary voltages to make sure it plays well with all types of setups, which it doesn't in my, and others, experience.

    I would say it's up to the owner to do the due diligence when it comes to their own setup.
     
  15. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,664
    Likes Received:
    380
    GPU:
    Nitro 5700 XT
    I would agree. You and I both had opposite experiences when using Auto. For me I've not had an issue. And, I cannot in good conscious ignore a representative from Asus saying otherwise about it. As I cannot find insight on why Auto is "high". From what I've gathered about this it's more about signaling/frequency.

    Edit:
    Ok, I've been trying Standard for almost 24 hrs now:
    VCCIO: 0.95v
    VCCSA: 1.05v
    And just got a blackscreen which I've not experienced in the past 7 months or so. So the lesson is that you cannot always mimic someone else's settings and get the same results.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2020

  16. FR4GGL3

    FR4GGL3 Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    5
    GPU:
    Vega 64 LC
    https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/aoqnq2/so_much_conflicting_info_about_safe_247_vccsa/
    I don't know if this is proof enough for you. But there are several reports of ruined CPUs. I won't test it with my own 500€ CPU. Sorry.
     
  17. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,664
    Likes Received:
    380
    GPU:
    Nitro 5700 XT
    So, I'm not the only one who thinks this:
    Apparently his issue was the Cache at 4600 which was too high for his CPU. I'm surprised he couldn't do 4400 though. In any case, it's true that the cpu has a standard vccio and vccsa according to the white papers. However, it appears that not all cpu's can do this so the motherboard manufactures allow for a range to accommodate for those differences. Along with that the ram frequency you use. It's my understanding that if your PC is a candidate for it (based on ram/cpu) then auto would work just fine.

    I've not found any information that suggests that auto for vccio/vccsa caused anyone any issues like that. If, you have a sweet golden type of cpu and can lower the voltage without any slow downs in booting, not booting or rebooting the 1st time, odd i/o processing behavior, screen problems, etc (again vccio and vccsa wasn't explained correctly) then by all means continue to use a lower voltage. However, I still suggest that one should try "Auto" just to see if the PC is a bit more snappier then before. If not, then go back to what someone told you.

    For me, trying to use "standard" cause a black screen. Something I've not seen in a long time (last year). So, I'm just one of those who can't use that. I also noticed odd artifacts (briefly) in Modern Warfare the moment I made that change too. But I took the time to test it out for myself though.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  18. FR4GGL3

    FR4GGL3 Member

    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    5
    GPU:
    Vega 64 LC
    Well, I don't have black screens and errors at all at standard voltages. Maybe I am lucky or maybe you already have some wear on your CPU. I found a 2-3% increase to be okay on those voltages in old(!) Intel Spec Sheets. But I don't know if this is also true on 8000 and 9000 series.
    But I do know from a few OC Forums that an Increase to 1.2xx V shouldn't do much harm (they run that Voltages for a long time). We talked about AUTO Settings pushing VCCIO und VCCSA above 1.3 V. And this is where my "German Angst" kicks in ;)
     
  19. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,664
    Likes Received:
    380
    GPU:
    Nitro 5700 XT
    I have been using lower voltage since I got this cpu. And I didn't notice improvements until I used auto.

    Come to think about it things got worst the moment I installed my 5700xt last year. Which had me researching every bios setting. Until I started putting them back to auto one by one. Inwhich I found vccio and vccsa had the most meaningful and repeatable impact to stability. Again, it's how the chip came. It had nothing to do with "wear".

    What I found most interesting about this was that those problems were a lot less when I had my fury card.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  20. Eastcoasthandle

    Eastcoasthandle Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,664
    Likes Received:
    380
    GPU:
    Nitro 5700 XT
    This is the most intriguing aspect of this journey. Vccio was mislabeled, to me, in relation to the memory controller back then. And, the voltage to the vccsa has a direct impact to the pcie as well as the display engine.

    For me, lowering voltage for vssca has a negative impact to the display.
    Examples:
    Black screen
    Mouse cursor stutter
    Slower then normal boot up times
    No boot screen
    Odd artifacting in game
    And other oddities I can't remember right now

    Which can deviate in severity from obvious to very subtle. Furthermore, I cannot rule out that lowering voltage for vccio also played a factor in this disparity of oddities.

    But at the end of the day using Auto has solved it.

    Edit 5-21-2020:
    Those oddities, I recall one.
    -Mouse sensitivity in game and exiting from game to desktop. In game I was always changing the mouse sensitivity for one reason or another. It always felt off. Also, I would adjust mouse sensitivity again when exiting the game back to desktop. Since using Auto I've not had a need to adjust sensitivity. I only adjust sensitivity to actually notice what the differences are now.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020

Share This Page