Valve to explain 'hardware opportunities' for Linux

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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    Valve's Gabe Newell likes Linux. A lot. In spite of the operating system representing less-than-one percent share by every metric used by Valve, Newell believes that Linux will play a large role in t...

    Valve to explain 'hardware opportunities' for Linux
     
  2. dsbig

    dsbig Ancient Guru

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    lol

    Im not new to the linux thing but...

    install ubuntu yesterday and installed steam.

    which I installed 64bit ubuntu and steam wouldnt run because it was missing 32bit librarys. so almost hour later because it was using slow mirrors to download. I was able to get steam running, only to find out only 10 of my 300 on linux.


    it more work to get steam running on linux then windows
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013
  3. trentbg

    trentbg Active Member

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    He better explain where the hell is HL 3.
     
  4. kanej2007

    kanej2007 Ancient Guru

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    He's been busy:

    [​IMG]
     

  5. Asgardi

    Asgardi Master Guru

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    Yeah...

    I kind of understand they have to seek alternatives to Windows because MS is starting to compete with them with W8 store. Even if Steam is currently light years ahead, desktop is going away eventually and that would basically kill Valve's current business model. And there are no other options really than Linux. But come on... W8 has already passed Linux market share over 5 times (8 % vs 1,5 %). And worst of all, Linux market share has stayed there for like 10 years.

    As I said, I kind of understand their investments in Linux but I would rather see them spending their resources in games again. They really made great games not too long ago.
     
  6. Veeshush

    Veeshush Maha Guru

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    Linux doesn't need your Steam, Gabe. Linux distros update their packages just fine on their own.


    It just needs the games.
     
  7. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    This is bound to fail, for it not to every game would need an OpenGL version that looks as good and performs better.

    Since no developers are going to go to that sort of effort this just seems like a huge waste of Valves time and money.
     
  8. kosh_neranek

    kosh_neranek Master Guru

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    I'd love to see games work on Linux .Was dreaming about this years ago. But honestly I can't see how this is going to happen. They need AAA titles to work on Linux.Let's hope Gabe has got something magical in his hat..
     
  9. Ghosty

    Ghosty Ancient Guru

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    Gaming on Linux could work. Android phones are built using it, all be it heavy modified. If MS keep on making Window versions like 8.0 then I can see more and more people turning to Linux.
     
  10. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    As with everything in linux, it's only a pain to set up. Once you're set up, it's easier than Windows.


    @Veeshush
    Actually, Steam is exactly what Linux needs. One of the core reasons nobody develops commercial software for linux is because of the variations in distributions, which are overall very similar except their package management systems. Steam can basically be treated as the "commercial/proprietary package manager". A lot of companies are and will look into linux because of steam.


    @Redemption80
    ...do you realize that PC and Xbox are the only platforms that use directx? Mac, Nintendo, and Sony all use opengl, so no, it isn't going to be a huge wasted effort.
     

  11. Timo2

    Timo2 Active Member

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    Quote: Asgardi "MS is starting to compete with them with W8 store."
    ------------------------------

    Excellent observation. Very astute and made me smile. Billionaire Gabe Newell.

    On topic - I seem to recall Half Life, Quake, Star wars X wing, Colin McRae etc. all running openGL on NT4 much, much better and faster and nicer looking. There was a choice at start up. D3D or OpenGL. It was a no-brainer on my PII 400 Mhz + Riva TNT.
    NT (OS/2 basically) is windows 2000 onwards. HAL is still there, I believe. What happened? MS bribed the developers?
    Question is why don't game publishers simply compile for both hardware layers?
     
  12. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    It's true - openGL, where correctly used, is often significantly faster than DX. But that's also the reason why developers don't use it as often for PC/xbox - it's slower and harder to develop for. As far as I'm aware, DX is actually loosely based around OGL but it's heavily abstracted to the point it's relatively easy to use.
     
  13. Timo2

    Timo2 Active Member

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    Indeed. Prebuilt libraries, procedure calls and subroutines embedded in Windows OS. You can understand it in a way as Windows became 99% of all OS worldwide by around 1999. Windows should have been made open source.
     
  14. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I do realise this, but unless Valve have managed to convince all developers to ditch DirectX then it is a waste of time and effort.

    Developing for two api's will mean buggier ports and i really think if PC gaming was competing against itself it would really cause alot of harm.
    Not that I think this will be competing against Windows anyway, it sounds more like an Ouya alternative.

    Speaking of Windows, ignoring the added cost and closed nature of the OS, surely Windows 8 is a better choice for a large TV, controller friendly Steam console than Linux?
     
  15. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    It appears Valve is the only company that is actually making Linux ports of their older games - I don't think anybody expects other companies to do the same. However, companies don't HAVE to do 2 separate APIs. They all have the option to just use opengl, which would work on every platform, including Windows. Besides, considering how lazy developers are today, many game engines, including ones from the past 10 years, support both DX and OGL.


    And no, Windows in general is considerably worse as a console. Linux has built-in support for most controllers without installing any drivers, it has several low-level tools to re-map controllers to keyboard or mouse functions (if they're even necessary), and considering how much you can customize it, you can set it up to boot directly into Big Picture Mode and not have any of the clutter of a regular desktop OS - this will make it boot much quicker and allow weaker hardware to do a good job. That being said, I expect this first steam box to have very mid-range parts. I could make a pretty good Steam-based linux OS right now that acts a lot like PS3 or Xbox360 if I really felt like it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2013

  16. Timo2

    Timo2 Active Member

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    Let's face it. Win8 is the nicest OS ever made. Especially 8.1. I realize it's a business with a profit motive/responsibility to shareholders but I think MS should :
    a/ Charge $20 per copy (not $120)
    b/ Re-install their openGL DLLs as standard. Those things worked so well back in the day.

    Windows won the battle of OS's in the 80s because anyone could write free software for it and publish. I remember the walled gardens of everyone else. Young kids hated walled gardens then and are now gravitating towards unix as a result. But games is what holds everything back.
     
  17. Yxskaft

    Yxskaft Maha Guru

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    If Valve doesn't come up with a way to support all DirectX games on Linux, there's no way I'm changing.


    Also, Nintendo and Sony don't use OpenGL. If consoles used the same APIs as the PC, that would defeat the whole purpose of consoles.
     
  18. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    It isn't Valve's responsibility to support DX, and considering they're doing this linux-based Steam box in spite of MS, I highly doubt they're going to get any support from MS. A lot of modern games have OGL support.

    And yes, Nintendo and Sony do use OGL. Both companies use wrappers and/or modifications to opengl, so it's not exactly the same. I like think of it as being opengl as a burn victim with PTSD, except maybe not so negative.
     
  19. Timo2

    Timo2 Active Member

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    Yxskaft - Yes. They are all using AMD64 based stuff (like PCs) but I think API's are proprietary for each platform.
     
  20. Timo2

    Timo2 Active Member

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    quote: I like think of it as being opengl as a burn victim with PTSD, except maybe not so negative.

    LOL
     

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