Valve Replaces Greenlight Program with Steam Direct

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Feb 11, 2017.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. waltc3

    waltc3 Maha Guru

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    Valve really needs to get rid of the dross--get rid of the kids living at home with fantastical dreams of making a AAA game from their allowance money and retiring with riches untold...;) A $5000 up-front fee is completely reasonable for a serious, semi-professional endeavor--and Valve will even refund that later on. It's still a very cheap price for someone's amateur software getting International exposure through Steam, imo. I've seen lots of people complain about the price (which Valve hasn't set yet--$5k was the upper end they mentioned), but I suspect that most of this howling comes from the very people Steam needs to turn down in order to come up with something nice to attract business. Green light is a big red light for me, atm. It reminds me of the state of x86 PC gaming software (contrasted with the Amiga environment) in the early 80's and 90's...a barrel full of pure junk...;) Ugh.
     
  3. CalculuS

    CalculuS Ancient Guru

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    This is good, greenlight was like a huge sewer filter. Problem was it just isn't very good at filtering sh*t.
     
  4. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Why? so that way you don't have to buy what you are already don't buy?

    Wtf is wrong with people. If horrible games are on steam, so be it, you have absolutely no reason to buy it, then don't. No one forces you. Why limit the content "just because"? Steam rating system is there to easily show you what people think of a game.

    Stop trying to limit what people have access to, it's completely pointless.
     

  5. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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  6. Mateja

    Mateja Member Guru

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    this is a really contemptuous comment. you appear to have had a terrible experience like this, or you just don't like fledgling developers. whatever the case, this is a discouraging and pointless comment and offers nothing constructive to a gaming industry on the brink of death or struggling developers, just insults. some of the most well renowned software / hardware companies in the world started as punk kids in their parent's garage. I guess you have a problem with google apple Microsoft amazon disney and HP? all of which were started in garages by complainey, privelaged young brats. and what's wrong with that? some of us refer to that as the American dream, and try to appreciate the virtues of it, and not insult and discourage people where we have failed. the 2nd part, I get it, I guess. you don't want to be flooded with amateur content you don't like. but I agree with Aura89, there is no reason to remove or reduce content, just improve the environment to connect people with things they might like.

    I still have no idea why anyone would ever want steam, other than feeling forced to use it for legal purposes (even if they own the media), or wanting a valve exclusive game (for me, that's never). it's like Netflix, but worse. maybe if they greatly reduced the price, like Netflix, or gave some awesome functionality like easy xbox360/ps4 controller driver support, 3d, vr support, or emulation/virtualization for timeless classics, or automatically configuring graphics to your gpu. I just don't see the point of adding a layer of shopping software and deceitfully pretending like it's the only way to purchase games you can easily purchase or legally own otherwise. it seemed like the only good and original thing they actually offered as a service was an environment for indie developers and now that's getting trolled to death. partially because of steam's woefully inadequate rating system. and now they want to restrict that indie dev even futher. I hate it. I hate it I hate it I hate it. lol. that said I have never used steam and never will. unless, perhaps I develop a game. lol

    I have the same complaints about gaming consoles, too. if I own something, I should be able to do whatever I want with it. plug those USB controllers into pc and they actually work (without having to hack it with sketchy third party tools), inject stereoscopic 3d, adjust graphical effects to achieve a resolution / fps balance of my liking, own it forever / bring it to a new system without having to pay for it over and over and over again endless hd remakes on new systems. sadly, a system like steam is the future. we won't need consoles anymore. there are games being released through platforms on smart TV's and as computation increases exponentially, soon we won't even need a pc or a gaming system. I just don't want my access to thousands of dollars of hardware and software that I already paid for to be restricted by yet more pay walls, in a closed system, and curtailed to 'what the mainstream wants.' if I could, in theory, easily and cheaply use what I own how I want, why block that?

    maybe I'm wrong about a thing or two, as a person who refuses to use steam, but like I said these concerns of mine apply to gaming consoles, too. and I just feel like, moving forward, we should be expanding accessibility and functionality, not limiting it...
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2017
  7. drac

    drac Ancient Guru

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    Sounds reasonable, an excellent step forward, nice one Valve. The system has been crap for too loooong.
     
  8. JonasBeckman

    JonasBeckman Ancient Guru

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    The user reviews and the refund feature do work pretty well (Even if Steam will warn about over-using said refund feature.) though I wouldn't mind a higher fee either, currently I think it's 100$ for greenlight entry and 1000$ for this and skipping the queue seems OK to me, perhaps even higher.

    Valve takes around 30% from what I've read so for a 10$ game that's like what, 130 sold copies or so to recoup which for a serious effort selling at least a hundred copies seems like it would be doable even if indie games might not be able to match "AAA" publishers in terms of marketing and such.


    Then again the reviews even if you have several early ones that are just a line or two with little to no info at all also works reasonably well to alert the user to the quality of a game shortly after it's release as does the community forums for said game even if there might be some random arguing and other stuff there as well. :)


    EDIT: Something like a Unity Engine license is more expensive still if I remember it right, UE4 and Cry-Engine revamped their methods a bit though and then there's alternatives for VN type games or RPG maker games which I'm not too sure what the cost for those are for making a licensed software for general release.
    (Unity was like 5000$ I think I remember reading but that was a while ago so the competition with other engines might have changed things a bit but UE4 isn't used nearly as often and Cry-Engine is used even less.)


    EDIT: The amount of new releases daily does make things a bit difficult as well, during the busier periods in 2016 there were some 60+ new listings on the front page throughout a single day and that's without also listing DLC but 2016 saw a record high growth in general so maybe things will be a bit calmer in 2017 or perhaps it'll grow even more, hard to say.
    (Even with extensions and Steam revamping the store page the sheer amount of releases daily makes browsing through it a bit difficult.)
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  9. WareTernal

    WareTernal Master Guru

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    People need to stop buying games that are obviously crap, then complaining about it when they don't get GTAV quality for 99 cents. The problem is people support bad games by purchasing them, which encourages more bad games. We need to raise the standards for what gets through Greenlight, not throw up another obstacle for indie devs. When I want to be limited to choosing between another Assassin's Creed, Battlefield, Call of Duty, Farcry Madden, or Need for Speed, I'll go to Uplay or Origin.

    The comment about "state of x86 PC gaming software in the early 80's and 90's" suggests to me that you didn't actually experience that at all, so let me tell you how it was:
    Gaming on PC in the early 80's was almost non-existant. The hardware was oriented towards office work - databases, spreadsheets, and word processing. IBM wasn't interested in the home computer market, so they let the small fish like Atari, Commodore, and Apple have it. I consider the Atari 400/800/1200 and the Commodore Vic20/64/128 to be "consoles with keyboards". The Apple 2 family was much closer to a "real computer", but even though it probably had the best community, it couldn't match Atari or Commodore's graphics and sound, or the PC's reputation as "not a toy" and impressive business software catalog. Cost was a huge factor at the time, with Ataris and Commodores selling for 1/10 the cost of a PC or less. There really wasn't a problem with the PC's software, instead it was the lack of hardware sprites and multi-voice sound that made PC versions of popular games of the day look like crap.
    By 1988 the NES was out, and it pretty much killed the Commodore 64 and 8-bit Ataris. The PC market survived the arrival of the console because it wasn't tied to the gaming market. Commodore's Amiga series and Atari's ST series were around now, with their "blitter" chips and GUI interfaces, at a fraction of a 80386 PC's price. IBM's influence was diminished as clone manufacturers sought to carve out a niche. Windows was available for PC, but performance was terrible. Graphics and sound capabilities varied widely on the PC platform. Again it was the hardware holding back PC gaming, while Amiga and Atari ST once again offered a more "in depth" gaming experience the consoles of the time could match.
    By 1991 the Super NES arrived and, again, killed the low-cost home computers of the day. While the Atari ST pretty much disappeared into history, the Amiga, with it's unique hardware, was able to live on for a while in the small A/V editing market. On the PC side of things, super VGA and Sound Blaster are becoming the standard and the i486 is hitting it's stride. Windows is still a performance hog, with little use for most users. At this point, PC's can finally match the graphics and sound of the "home computers" - Ultima VI looked the same on Amiga or PC(the SNES was pretty close, but the interface and dialogue not so much).
    In 1993 Doom is released and Windows 3.1 is out. PC's have "local bus" graphics and HDD's. The PC is able to deliver a better gaming experience than any "home computer" or console can match. In fact, with prices continuing to drop, and the "consoles with keyboards" finally dead, the PC is becoming the new "home computer".
    There was no time when PC gaming was "held back by" or "full of" shoddy games produced by fly-by-night "developers".
     
  10. gUNN1993

    gUNN1993 Master Guru

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    Because the store front is FILLED with dross: **** that doesn't work, asset flips, base thievery. All this crap, even with people downvoting etc, makes it harder for the good games to rise up.

    Because the store is saturated, the only way for good indie games to actually get noticed is to pay a marketing firm, run a brilliant viral campaign or get a famous youtuber to play their game.
     

  11. Alessio1989

    Alessio1989 Ancient Guru

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    This is not going to stop shìt-titles.
    There are tons of indie and free small games (free != free-to-play scams) that are better than tons of crap-'AAA' games.

    This is going only against the firsts and third party mods making a big favour for big companies. This also is only going to make a BIG favour to MS Store...
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  12. Loobyluggs

    Loobyluggs Ancient Guru

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    Reputation is important and ones digital life is traceable, especially for creativity.

    If someone wants my money and I haven't heard of them before, I will begin looking at them and their staff. Do they have an Artstation account or similar? What work have their staff done in the past?

    There is an enormous potential out there and amazingly talented people, but if anyone can submit their junk wares to peddle, it became a problem in less than 24 hours.

    Some people do not seem to learn though, or even be interested in the reputation of the people they are giving money to. A very good example of this is Chris Roberts, who did have a certain amount of industry clout, but those which gave him money for the Kickstarter project that shall not be named didn't research Chris Roberts and what his reputation was. If they did, they would not have given him any money.

    How to get reputation is easy, but so was hiding behind the biggest online platform and attempting to blend in with the likes of Ubisoft.

    No more...

    IF you want to develop a game on your own:- write a business plan, go to a bank, get a loan and make it happen.

    IF you are not willing to do that, then WE are not willing to pay you any attention.

    END. OF.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2017
  13. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    Most games in there could even be made for flashplayer.
    Guess Steam doesn't want to become the next miniclip, armored games, etc. Ha
     
  14. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Makes it harder for good games to rise up? What my post is relating to is the fact that good games wouldn't have the POSSIBILITY to even come out. So what you're saying is because there's bad games out there you want to make sure you won't ever be able to find the good ones (that are not AAA) because they won't exist? Makes sense.

    And it is very easy to find good games on steam. There's top sellers, popular, tags, recommendations, user ratings both total and recent, metacritic, among many other ways

    What you want is nonsense and useless. It serves no purpose other then to tell people what they can and can not buy
     
  15. XP-200

    XP-200 Ancient Guru

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    Gamer's really do need stop top buying ****. lol
     

  16. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    Sorry how is this a step forward? From what I am reading it looks like nothing more than a rebranding of the Greenlight program. The problem with Greenlight was that their was no QC done by Valve at all prior to content being uploaded and this new system at no point mentions that it will include any level of QC done by Valve.

    In fact if I am reading this right this is going to make the amount of rubbish on Steam worse. The Greenlight program was a path way that allowed developers to submit software which the community then voted on prior to it going on Steam. The reason it failed was because unscrupulous developers abused the system to get utter rubbish voted through.

    All this announcement is saying is that Valve is removing the obstacle that required unscrupulous developers to spend time and effort circumventing and instead have replaced it with a flat fee. Pay Valve now to by pass all QC and get your sh*t on Steam ASAP.

    Yet again Valve do something that as read from their statement is utter rubbish and people are sitting around patting Valve on the back telling them well done...
     

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