1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

USB3/wireless Keyboard Interference

Discussion in 'Operating Systems' started by Montville, Jun 23, 2018.

  1. Montville

    Montville Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    4
    GPU:
    Aorus RX 570 4GB
    USB3 / wireless Keyboard Interference

    Having here a wireless MS keyboard/mouse combo I find that an USB3 flash-drive is causing havoc once plugged next to the transceiver on the front panel - erratic mouse movements are the result!

    Okay, me thinks, plugged the transceiver into the mobo's backplane at the back - this solved the erratic desktop mouse movements but when *gaming* the problem still exists.

    I have to remove all USB3 sticks to completely fix this issue. Funny enuf my two usb3 backup HDDs do no cause any issues.

    Anyone how to fix this issue without going cabled keyboard/mouse please step forward..
     
  2. scatman839

    scatman839 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,654
    Likes Received:
    244
    GPU:
    7970m/970 Mini, KD55XD800
    I dont think there is, I have the same issue and any time I plug in an SD card to the usb socket I get jerky movement too, have to plug it directly into the pc.

    The USB drive saturates the bandwidth of the little cable that is connected to your USB header, or in my case, the usb extension cord.

    Best option is to get a small usb extension cord, plug it into your back panel and just use that for USB drives.

    Think your usb HDD are too slow to cause an issue
     
    Montville likes this.
  3. Montville

    Montville Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    4
    GPU:
    Aorus RX 570 4GB
    WareTernal likes this.
  4. Chastity

    Chastity Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,118
    Likes Received:
    157
    GPU:
    Nitro 390/GTX1070M
    It's radio noise, so a piece of metal between the USB sticks and the receiver, with the receiver on your side of the metal, should do the trick. Or use a USB3 extension cable as was suggested to move the sticks. (Or an external USB3 hub for more than 1 stick)
     
    Montville likes this.

  5. Montville

    Montville Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    4
    GPU:
    Aorus RX 570 4GB
    Situation still is two usb3 sticks bring the system/desktop to a crawl even when the sticks are idle (no data traffic) - as soon as I eject the sticks (not remove) all is back to normal.

    Yes, I tried a tinfoil hat around the stick - no change
    I disabled the router's wifi - no change
    The phone is DETC hence no interference
    The mobo does not have wifi onboard

    .. and that's it.. no more wifi sources in the room

    leaves the only two remaining possibilities - it's the MS (Via) usb3 driver messing up or it is the stick Samsung 3.1 USB Stick Bar Plus (32GB) ?!

    https://www.jbhifi.com.au/samsung/samsung-3-1-usb-stick-bar-plus-32gb/620490/
    https://pasteboard.co/Hrr4dgz.jpg

    ideas please!
     
  6. scatman839

    scatman839 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,654
    Likes Received:
    244
    GPU:
    7970m/970 Mini, KD55XD800
    dont plug the usb drives into the front panel, get a 4-1 extension cord and plug it into the back panel, put drives into that
     
  7. Montville

    Montville Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    4
    GPU:
    Aorus RX 570 4GB
    Thx, scatman, I forgot to mention I tried that already with both - seperate transceiver/usb stick in the back but no joy!
     
  8. Chastity

    Chastity Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,118
    Likes Received:
    157
    GPU:
    Nitro 390/GTX1070M
    OK, now we need some specs: What OS are you using, and what USB3 controller(s)?
     
  9. Montville

    Montville Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    4
    GPU:
    Aorus RX 570 4GB
    OS: win10 (17134.112)
    usb3 is the build in via controller VL805 of the ga-990fxa-ud3_v.4.0

    The keyboard/mouse is on usb2 wireless (front)
    2 Seagate HDDs on USB3 at the backside working fine
    the "culprit" are the samsung usb3 32GB sticks - plugging those drags the system down (input) even when no data traffic at all.

    More precisely,
    1 stick is still fine to navigate the desktop without lag but gaming lags (mouse/screen)
    2 sticks desktop and gaming lags horribly

    Now, this sounds all like bus congestion but HOW when all devices are idle?
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
  10. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,972
    Likes Received:
    853
    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 1070
    For some reason my peripheral vision reads "USB3/wireless" as "Useless"...

    Have you tried to install latest drivers? For example from here https://www.win-raid.com/t834f25-USB-Drivers-original-and-modded.html . May be even search for FW updates for the controller.

    Does USB controller work in MSI mode? Have you checked USB power plan settings? Be aware that there are hidden ones.

    There is a way to subscribe to USB subsystem (EWT) events, but the spam from USB event provider is huge.
     
    Montville likes this.

  11. Chastity

    Chastity Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,118
    Likes Received:
    157
    GPU:
    Nitro 390/GTX1070M
    Seems your mobo uses VIA USB3 controller. As mentioned, check for driver updates and also possible firmware updates.
     
  12. Montville

    Montville Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    4
    GPU:
    Aorus RX 570 4GB
    Using Win10 here, Via driver is provided by MS only, and btw the usb3 driver version starts with 10.xxxxx - no way I can install a winraid version 6.xxxxx - further, no usb3 card here hence no firmware updates as far as I know - the usb3 chip is on board.

    https://pasteboard.co/HrK148Y.jpg

    I have no idea how to enable MSI mode on my old board!?
    USB power plan settings? where?

    as above...
     
  13. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,972
    Likes Received:
    853
    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 1070


    Click on the button "Driver details" to see the dialog with the list of actual drivers and paste screenshot here.

    That doesn`t mean that Win10 drivers are newer. I am certain that Windows team got these (so called generic) drivers from VIA. You can check whether drivers from win-raid forum is newer by manually update way with the button "Update driver" but it is disabled for you. Which means you are logged not as administrator. That manual way of updating (but not forcing) the drivers is good enough because Windows reads all info from inf-file and decides whether provided drivers are newer and better than current ones.

    My motherboard has 3rd party USB3 controller from ASMedia, and OEM provided the app for updating its firmware (and win-raid forum provided newer one too which I used).

    Go to Device manager, change view to "Resources by type", expand root node with IRQs, scroll down to PCI devices, locate this VIA USB3 controller and see at assigned IRQ value - if negative then device works in MSI mode. I made a thread about MSI mode and developed utility to switch PCI devices between MSI and legacy modes
    https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/w...ssage-signaled-based-interrupts.378044/unread

    But do not hope MSI mode can solve strange behavior in your OP. I was just curious whether VIA USB3 controller works in MSI mode by default. And of course MSI mode is just better than legacy one.

    I made utility for that too
    https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/windows-power-plan-settings-explorer-utility.416058/
    There is Windows own dialog with advanced power plan settings, but many settings are hidden from users. So you either can unhide them (and edit in OS dialog) or just edit them with my tool.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
    Montville likes this.
  14. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,972
    Likes Received:
    853
    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 1070
    After some search I found that there are controller firmware updates from VIA:
    - official (as an example since only VL811 is there) http://www.via-labs.com/driver.php
    - station-drivers
    Via VL805/806 Usb 3.0 Hub controllers Firmware Version 013703
    Via VL805/806 Usb 3.0 Hub controllers Firmware Version 013704

    BUT, of course I don`t know whether these are for all types of controllers - on-board and/or external PCI-E card. May be you should ask at win-raid corresponding forum whether users there did the FW update with their VIA controllers.

    PS I downloaded bundle from station-drivers and it seems legit. There is pdf-file with description. And the program to flash the firmware is pretty useful - you can use it to check whether your chip is supported and current FW version. But still flashing FW is dangerous routine, and flashing wrong FW is official way to break the controller. So you should check and decide - to risk or not.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
    Montville likes this.
  15. Montville

    Montville Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    4
    GPU:
    Aorus RX 570 4GB
    Hmm, you certainly are a very good Likes collector - now I see why! ;)


    here it is:
    https://pasteboard.co/HrTlWhZ.jpg


    usb3 IRQ = -5


    okay, which usb3 settings are of interest? (to play with)

    Hmm, this is hub firmware means it's a pci card but I'll check that out


    Yes, the win10 drivers are from this year while the WinRaid drivers are from last year
     

  16. Agent-A01

    Agent-A01 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,043
    Likes Received:
    631
    GPU:
    1080Ti H20
    Try via drivers from winraid usb 3 thread; despite what device manager, the date is not exactly correct.

    The real driver it uses could be much older.

    Lastly, you may try looking at motherboard manual and see what IRQs are shared with the VIA controller.
    Maybe disable some of those devices if they aren't used.
     
  17. mbk1969

    mbk1969 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,972
    Likes Received:
    853
    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 1070
    These look to me as generic drivers from MS, not even generic ones from VIA.


    Hub Selective Suspend Timeout
    USB selective suspend setting
    USB3 Link Power Management


    On-board USB/SATA/NIC/AUDIO controllers are all PCI-E ones. They just soldered to PCI-E lanes made on the board.


    I phrased the piece about drivers a bit awkward. Microsoft can specify whatever version and date for drivers (for example to match the date and version of OS kernel). If manual update of drivers in Device manager (where you point to the folder with downloaded VIA drivers) refuses to get specified drivers, then you still can try VIA drivers by forced manual update, and rollback later in case VIA drivers do not work properly.
     
  18. Montville

    Montville Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    4
    GPU:
    Aorus RX 570 4GB
    Okay, installed those but it's not compatible - the USB3-hub entry errors (registry) after update and no usb3 access at all. Restored the original and is well again.

    Update fails - dunno what they talk about:
    https://pasteboard.co/HrTMT96.jpg

    okay, failed to work properly - see above
     
  19. Montville

    Montville Active Member

    Messages:
    79
    Likes Received:
    4
    GPU:
    Aorus RX 570 4GB
    Oh, I found out there is a Win10/64 usb3 driver on the gigabyte website but even it pretends to install successfully.. the Microsoft usb3 driver stays in place - no change!
     
  20. WareTernal

    WareTernal Member Guru

    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    18
    GPU:
    XFX R9 380X XXX
    I found the whitepaper you linked to be an interesting read. It does seem like it might be an interference issue.
    "The broadband noise emitted from a USB 3.0 device can affect the SNR and limit the sensitivity of any wireless receiver whose antenna is physically located close to the USB 3.0 device."
    "The impact to mouse performance was found to be the same whether the USB 3.0 peripheral device had data being actively written to it or if it was merely connected."
    Via driver is provided by Via :D. Download from Gigabyte here: VIA USB 3.0 Driver.

    Before experimenting with drivers I would try a wired mouse - it seems that if the wired mouse works then you can probably stop worrying about drivers, firmware, and IRQ's.
    Of the 3 mitigations Intel described, only 1 is practical - wireless antenna placement. Put the reciever as far from the USB 3 devices as you can. You have 2 USB 3 ports on the back, and possibly 2 more on front(if you case has them).
    A possible long shot might be to enable IOMMU, as many linux users of Gigabyte 970/990 had USB 3 issues with it.
    Good luck!

    *I see you found the drivers. Doh!
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018

Share This Page