upgradeing ram yay or nay?

Discussion in 'General Hardware' started by tsunami231, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    So have I have 6700k@stock in Asrock z170 Extreme 4 using
    CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR2400 (2 x 8GB)

    and was thinking of

    Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 8GB DDR4-3200 (2x8GB)


    in except maybe going 8x4 config.

    Current setup has lower cas ones i looking at are higher, timing seem similar though. question is should I get 8x4 config if I go to 32gb or 4x4 if I stick with 16gb I keep reading people saying 4 stick tend have better min framerates vs 2 of same amount among other things. not sure why maybe cause work is split? or cause dual channel just has better bandwidth with 4x4 vs 8x2 setup's again this just what I been reading around here

    I mean probably dont need 32 gb seeing I have 16gb but it is only running 2400mhz. any only game I played that had serious issue with low min frame rates was swtor which everyone has.

    And only game I have that ACTUAL played so for that has stutter issue is deux ex md (DX12) at random mostly in the city, other wise it a perfect 60 fps nice and smooth

    one those these day I gona have to finish witcher 2 to see how well witcher 3 plays, still refuse to play witcher 3 till i finish 2
     
  2. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    Correct.

    This is because you have access to additional physical channels per clock cycle, although better minimum frames would depend entirely on the work load. Also, as an additional bit of information, this is also why you can't use a command rate of 1 with 4 memory sticks, as the chipset can not address that many channels in a single clock cycle.

    Concerning benefit from faster memory, again this will depend on many factors because relative dropped frames will primarily be caused by the piece of hardware that is the weakest, and this could be the CPU, RAM, hard disk drive, PCI-E bus, software it self etc. Generally speaking, however, a CPU/chipset design is created with specific memory bandwidth considered, so theoretical requirements are generally included in the memory base for the chipset/CPU at stock settings. Of course, once you start increasing CPU speed, this is no longer relevant.

    With the above considered, 16 GB vs 32 GB RAM amount is a matter of requirements, but a such a high amount will be of very small benefit for most current situations. Finally, Deus Ex: Mankind Divided is a very GPU intensive game, and any CPU or memory related concerns may in fact be more related to the software.
     
  3. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    Going for faster ram is the worst price/performance upgrade imo.

    $200+ for a few frames?
     
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  4. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    i have no plans to build new pc atlest for another 2 3 years less, something come long that gotta have and right price. I only got the 16gb at 2400 at time cause it was the cheapest, now I can get 16gb at 3200 20 less then I payed for the 2400 and have 4x4 at that.

    I know Swtor has horrid min framerates but I pretty sure the issue there is how bad the engine software is. that and I dont play it anymore.

    Realisticly though keeping in mind those timings would the 3200 be upgrade or more of side grade? I know from daily use i wont see difference, it would more of benefit to game if anything
     

  5. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Op, you have good overclocking ram, hopefully you can get at least 3000MHz from it.
    A lot depends on the quality of the motherboard and may need higher voltage with a few timings tweaked.

    I have the same ram but 4x4GB 3000MHz CL15, 1.35V.
    I have it clocked to 3733MHz CL17, 1.44V with my Maximus VIII Hero board.
    Before that I used 2 cheaper boards from Gigabyte and MSI, neither allowed the ram to be fully stable above 2500MHz, nowhere near the rated speed.

    I have no wish to dispute but my 4x4GB Corsair Vengeance 3000MHz CL15 will run 1T at rated clocks speed, I used it like this for a few months.
     
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  6. Barry J

    Barry J Ancient Guru

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    I upgraded 16gb vengeance 2 x 8gb 3000mhz to 32gb vengeance 4 x 8gb 3000mhz prices are good at the moment
     
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  7. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Adding to your helpful post...
    My overclock stated above required tRFC (Row Refresh Cycle time) to be increased quite a lot to push the MHz envelope with lowest CAS (CL).
    Lower CAS may need more voltage as well.

    Stock: 3000MHz tRFC = 300 at 1.35V
    3600MHz needs tRFC = 480 and 1.4V for CL17
    3733MHz needs tRFC = ??? and 1.37V for CL18 (I didnt write down the tRFC used for this, it would have been lower than 600)
    3733MHz needs tRFC = 600 and 1.44V for CL17

    Op to prevent tRFC limiting you, raise it by 300 before you overclock and see how high MHz you can get.
    Reduce it to a lower stable value once you have found your max overclock.

    I recommend using 1.4V as a safe max voltage, this will let you clock a bit higher and use lower CAS.
    I have been using 1.44V for approaching 2 years, my ram + CPU have kept the same overclock.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
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  8. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    Sorry, I should have been more thorough, but it's been a while since I read the limitation principles for memory channels and command rate.

    Some boards may allow a command rate of 1 with 4 memory sticks, but I suspect this is because memory is also organised based on physical ranks per module, which should still result in the same basic limitation as originally noted.

    Also, an interesting find for memory frequency effects in some situations.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2019
  9. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    not really into OC anything, just to much try this try that, is it stable. but I will look in to it, Not sure where my Asrock Extreme 4 falls but it does support up to 3866mhz last i looked
     
  10. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    Further insight on the importance memory has to minimum frame rates.
    https://www.tomshardware.co.uk/corsair-vengeance-lpx-16gb-ddr4-4600-memory,review-34192-2.html

    Also, memory command rate and the number of modules appear to be specifically linked on some boards, but there might be some confusion concerning ranks in the following article.
    https://www.legitreviews.com/amd-ry...mory-performance_192960/3#PbpflIi3OlCHjkdE.99

    That said, my intention was to only show the relation between physical memory configurations, and the effect it has on memory channel controllers in a practical way. Although that is a valid observation, and the clear importance of the relation can be shown, I am not entirely sure the 64-bit wide double data rate memory ranks and 64-bit wide memory channel interface is related to command rate in a direct way. At first glance, it does appear that way, but I haven't been able to clearly define the relation between the two, beyond anecdotal evidence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019

  11. SerotoNiN

    SerotoNiN Ancient Guru

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    What's "upgradeing"?
     
  12. SerotoNiN

    SerotoNiN Ancient Guru

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    How does this guy see my post if I'm ignored?
     
  13. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Not logged in.
     
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  14. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    correct me if wrong cause I havent really done any OC of any kind since my 970 i7, which was unstable at 3ghz for years and i never knew it till swtor came out and it start bsod my system cause of how brutal the game engine is on hardware.

    but isnt OC memory locked to the CPU? or can one actual just OC the memory and only the memory. I want 3200mhz and if can push my ram to without much effort I will. but if it anything like OC a CPU and trying to fiqure out if stable or not. it probably wont happpen. 10 years ago i might been more willing, not so much these days
     
  15. metagamer

    metagamer Maha Guru

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    Oooooh drama!!!
     
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  16. sverek

    sverek Ancient Guru

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    NowKith.gif
     
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  17. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    If you have money to spend, why not. I got some 3200MHZ CL14 memory since I'm going for some RGB plus simply wanted to buy some better RAM. I don't expect a big difference but there will be some. Later this year or next year I'll opt for another 16GB kit since games require more and more RAM. When I play The Division 2, the total RAM usage is almost 12GB.
     
  18. tsunami231

    tsunami231 Ancient Guru

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    kindly dont post if your just doing to cause drama or cause problems and or be and asshat
     
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  19. metagamer

    metagamer Maha Guru

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    I don't even know what you're on about.
     
  20. metagamer

    metagamer Maha Guru

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    Often, when people don't understand what the f*ck is going on, they'll ask.

    I quoted you and the other guy because you were barking at each other and it was funny.
     
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  21. BlackZero

    BlackZero Ancient Guru

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    Guru3D's explanation on memory configurations and command rate, which appears to be clearer than most I have come across recently.

    https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/ballistix-sport-lt-ddr4-3200-mhz-2x8-gb-review,5.html

    In many ways, I think this has become the order of the day as things have started to become much more complex, and optimisations have led to ever increasing amounts of logical distributions atop physical ones.

    In any case, i'm putting this subject to rest, as I don't think there's much more to be gained beyond what's already been said.
     
  22. SerotoNiN

    SerotoNiN Ancient Guru

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    You need a hug. But I'm blocked, so you'll never get one.
     

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