Upcoming Geforce GTX cards Use GDDR5X not HBM2

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jun 16, 2017.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

    Messages:
    40,802
    Likes Received:
    9,191
    GPU:
    AMD | NVIDIA
    We've written a lot back and forth about GDDR5X versus HBM2 (and GDDR6 these days). Nvidia did not place all their eggs in one basket, AMD pretty much did so for high-end. That being the main and ro...

    Upcoming Geforce GTX cards Use GDDR5X not HBM2
     
  2. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

    Messages:
    15,115
    Likes Received:
    1,690
    GPU:
    GTX 1080 Ti
    It's probably cheaper, plus AMD has been working with HBM for awhile we know. Nvidia still is probably getting their feet wet with it.

    Kind of reminds me of a certain war between two optical storage formats just a few years back...
     
  3. NewTRUMP Order

    NewTRUMP Order Master Guru

    Messages:
    495
    Likes Received:
    125
    GPU:
    STRIX GTX 1080
    Smart business plan: Make best product possible, with the cheapest products available. What do I care what memory is being used if it works, doesn't cost me my second born and my favorite dog?:approval:
     
  4. Lane

    Lane Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    3
    GPU:
    2x HD7970 - EK Waterblock
    I was most think that Volta will use GDDR6 ( on consumer gaming parts ), not GDDR5x...

    Anyway, we should certainly see GV104 first, and if they want release them this year, GDDR5x is the only solution. ( an with same rate speed than today, as i dont think they could make evolve GDDR5x much higher )
     

  5. SirDremor

    SirDremor Master Guru

    Messages:
    586
    Likes Received:
    0
    GPU:
    Nvidia GTX 1050
    HBM doesn't provide any real benefits to consumer products while costing a kidney and causing your product to be delayed for more than a year, so no surprises Nvidia is not rushing to use it.


    BTW, this "bandwidth" advantage of HBM is a myth.
    True it HAS advantage in 1-chip-vs-1-chip design, but we need to look at the whole package (and consider if such bandwidth is actually needed at all...).
    Just look at 1080 TI with GDDR5X having more memory bandwidth than unreleased Vega with HBM2.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  6. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,318
    Likes Received:
    1,515
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 980 Ti FTW
    Since 4K will obviously be the target for the upcoming Volta cards, NVidia had better optimize memory I/O even further if they stick to GDDR.

    MSAA seems to be dead, so they will probably get away with this just fine.
     
  7. Prince Valiant

    Prince Valiant Master Guru

    Messages:
    724
    Likes Received:
    73
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 1080 ti
    I wish FXAA would go find a quiet corner to die in.
     
  8. The Commenter

    The Commenter Member

    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    2
    GPU:
    Sapphire Fury Tri X x2
  9. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    13,323
    Likes Received:
    2,823
    GPU:
    EVGA RTX 3080
    Increased framerates when you run out of VRAM is not something I'd consider must have - just give the card enough VRAM in the first place.

    Regardless, I think everyone knows HBM2 has benefits, the question is whether those benefits is worth the increased cost, potential delays, etc that seem to stem from using it. In gaming, I personally don't see the value.
     
  10. Rich_Guy

    Rich_Guy Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    12,657
    Likes Received:
    648
    GPU:
    MSI 2070S X-Trio
    GeForce cards are their gaming cards, so don't need it, they only use HBM on their data centre cards (Teslas), where it is.
     

  11. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,858
    Likes Received:
    349
    GPU:
    Sapphire RX 580X SE
    Agree, the HBM tesla is on request and cost... way too much for a gaming GPU. :)

    Also aviability of HBM is an issue (for both NVidia and AMD despite this one is the 1st on the list) and so the price.

    Sometime technical evolution is hard :pc1: ...
     
  12. PrMinisterGR

    PrMinisterGR Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,677
    Likes Received:
    607
    GPU:
    Inno3D RTX 3090
    I believe that this kind of design will also have an impact whenever there is VRAM<->RAM communication, and not only when you run out of VRAM. That could have a lot of interesting implications on microstutter across the board.
     
  13. rl66

    rl66 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,858
    Likes Received:
    349
    GPU:
    Sapphire RX 580X SE
    AMD have only a few advantage on it, NVidia have worked on HBM the 1st and decided to not use it, and worked with HBM2 (well... to reduce cost they need to make it sold to any one :) )

    About optical we should remind that both get obsolete and never sold much (one is dead, and other is nearly dead: draw game) outsider like cloud and VOD rise and win.
     
  14. RealNC

    RealNC Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,318
    Likes Received:
    1,515
    GPU:
    EVGA GTX 980 Ti FTW
    Nope. TXAA is MSAA with temporal filters on top. Games that can't support MSAA also can't support TXAA. If MSAA is dead, so is TXAA.

    Maybe you meant to say TAA, which is post-process temporal AA. It's not bad at 4K. It is a bit blurry, but at this point, it's the only thing that gets rid of shimmering, so I'll take it.
     
  15. Silva

    Silva Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    618
    GPU:
    Asus RX560 4G
    I'm a fan of Ryzen but Vega is 6 months late to be relevant.
    Nvidia has HBM products on their top products for companies, their consumer GPU's don't use them because there's no point on thinning the margin of gains with more expensive tech when you can have the same performance for cheap.
    HBM have potential to be great, but right now is dragging AMD GPU division down real time!

    Wrong, because adding more ram is expensive and if you can lift the physical limit for developers with intelligent controllers and software, everyone can benefit from cheaper products and more features!
     

  16. Lane

    Lane Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    3
    GPU:
    2x HD7970 - EK Waterblock
    Actually, this not much about how much Vram are there ( whatever you have 4-8-16GB ), but much about reduce the footprint of memory on Vram ( meaning be able to store more data and more efficiently as today )... ( a bit like compression today, but more efficiently ).. If it work on 4gb gpus it will work too on 8-16GB gpus, just performance benefit will not be same.


    Huum not sure where you got that... AMD have start working on developping HBM way longer than you seems think. In fact their patent and research paper was way before it was called HBM.
    On the other hand, Nvidia was showing interest on HMC , but was not even at start part of the HMCC consortium ( Micron, Samsung, Xiling, Altera etc ).. ( And if their member list is too believed, they are still not or no more part of it )

    HMC and HBM are 2 different things.

    HMC
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Memory_Cube

    HMC consortium http://www.hybridmemorycube.org/about.html

    HBM https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Bandwidth_Memory

     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  17. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,803
    Likes Received:
    3,359
    GPU:
    6900XT+AW@240Hz
    Those benefits are worth it 100% for mobile devices and anything where size and power consumption matters.
     
  18. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Maha Guru

    Messages:
    1,150
    Likes Received:
    492
    GPU:
    GTX 1070
    Probably a smart move on Nvidia's part but also on AMD's to use HBM2.

    If you look at what Vega is and what Navi is planned to be, the HBM2 plays a big role in there plans so AMD has to push forward with it. Vega is a SOC with there infinity fabric implemented. I very much expect with the 7nm Navi planned for next year we will see AMD take a Ryzen like approach and start "gluing" GPU's together to function as one unit with no need of crossfire and the driver profiles that go with it. They will have very high bandwidth needs when they start sharing the HBM2 across multiple GPU's. I'm not certain but pretty sure this is why they designed Vega the way they did so its a stepping stone to a die shrink and use the infinity fabric to tie more than one GPU together, well and also to make APU's easier.
     
  19. Pinstripe

    Pinstripe Master Guru

    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    22
    GPU:
    RTX 2060 Super
    So August launch for RX Vega reference models, which means probably September for AIB models. The same month when Nvidia will Blitz-release the GTX 2080/70 to piss yet again on AMDs parade. Gotcha.
     
  20. ivymike10mt

    ivymike10mt Master Guru

    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    12
    GPU:
    GTX 1080Ti SLI
    Nvidia.. after shaving us by decades, have enough money, to buil their own fabs, and licenses for mass producing their own HBM tech :D
    That was fully expected, that Nvidia will not hurry for HBM.
    Was also mentioned that GDDR5X can run 16Gbps... That will be next nVidia step for gamming GPU's.
    They chose to reduce cost in memmory, but also can put plenty VRAM chips for relativly good price.

    MSAA is not dead. Engines simply still use it.
    4K or SSAA dosen't give smoth edges so cheap/fast as MSAA do.

    But for PC's mostly pure performance have matter.
     

Share This Page