Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by XenthorX, May 13, 2020.
We have better and better looking games/engines, I just hope physics and AI will keep up...
Physics are neglected, and AI LOL don't expect that any time soon. Remember the PS4/Pro and XB1/X use CPUs so garbo that my phone overpowers them. The AMD Jaguar chip was absolutely never designed with gaming in mind, it was meant to be a tablet chip it seems. Upcoming games for at least the next 2 years will have that same full-retard "AI" so they can remain fully backward compatible with current gen consoles without having to do more work.
Ever wondered why a "hard" mode in a game is never actually more difficult, but just more cheap/cheesy such as just outright doing more damage, disabling you in one way or another (reduced damage / health / regeneration) rather than, you know, not having the enemy standing around being dumb? AMD Jaguar. Why can you not have lots of characters on screen without insane limitations/problems? AMD Jaguar. Why does that NPC stare you down, then shoot over your shoulder by about 4 firetrucks distance? AMD Jaguar. Why did Santa never leave you any presents? AMD Jaguar.
The XB1X's GPU paired with the Jaguar chip has to be literally the worst mismatch of a GPU and a CPU, in a largely available commercial product, in history. I fully expect game AI to be 100% retarded until support for the PS4/XB1 is dropped.
Whoa ~Keanu Reeves
Games like this will be massive in size - who will be able to afford a 5tb NVME?
You have all missed the most important point to all of this for content creators - NO NORMAL MAPS NEEDED.
The quantity of 'lost hours' over the course of a games' development of characters and environments to normal maps, baking, retopologising, alone is a very big number, involving millions of dollars for a single game, let alone the industry as a whole.
You truly need to appreciate, that the ability to just create the biggest and most awesomeness assets possible and just say 'done!' and, go home to the family, is beyond an achievement in the video games industry.
The amount of time artists spend doing repetitive BS on a model because it had 0.00001% too many polygons...that then need a rebake of the normal maps, AND the f'king UV's is a silent killer of souls, and I swear, actually contributed to global warming due to the electricity it required over the years.
All that work is no longer needed.
Can you even imagine? Starting your day at 9, and when 5 comes along - you get to leave the f'king office!!!
No more crunch people.
The only thing that concerns me is that when the computers take over the world and plug us into the matrix, this actually makes their jobs easier....but, then we get to fly!
I think you're 99% right. That 1% where you're wrong is : crunch. They will find something else ppl need to crunch on, no doubts there. Game business = greed.
Ive rewatched this video about 10 times now and I am still not impressed. Its not showing what the PS5 can do, its showing what the engine can do or what they believe devs to be able to achieve within the next 2-3 years using the engine.
You have to factor in, this was heavily scripted, controlled, and confined (for the most part) to small areas even the last part where she flies you can see that its tightly controlled. There were also no NPC's, A.I, etc. The textures will have to be compressed in some form those raw movie style 3d models can range into the 100GB area if not more.
I think people need to taper their expectations with this especially when it comes to the new consoles. We have been burnt too many times before, remember Sony with Killzone 2? Heck that entire year was a total lie by them. Then you have EPIC with Unreal and remember the Infiltrator Demo from like 2013? We don't have games looking anywhere near that quality on PC let alone consoles. This is the time frame where they pull out all the stops and upsell the console as much as they can even if sometimes it means glossing over some facts.
and sampler feedback
Part of the engines job is to make the character models look real, I suppose it seems like they've not put much effort into that with UE5 as there aren't new specific features for that. Sure some AAA game can still make it work but if we want most games to have better models we need the support baked into the engine.
If all next gen UE5 gives is even more high def hard rocks and statutes that's not that great. I would have like to have seen more realistic soft stuff like human bodies, plastic, sand, grass, water, clothes - modelling the subtle ways they move and compress. All we got here was a slightly wavy scarf which we've been able to do for at least 10 years now.
That is fine, 1440p 30fps and looks beautiful.
If that is the level of graphic, do you still need raytracing?
Seems to be built on top of DXR Ultimate though. Could be using Mesh Shaders for Nanite, Inline Raytracing for Lumen, etc.
Because you take what you see on your screen for granted?
Just the "no LODs" part is crazy, to the point where you wonder how they managed this in realtime.
The Vimeo link has much better video quality than Youtube.
This looks a bit like how some places look in Horizon Zero Dawn. We will probably see something close to it in under a year, most likely from an in-house studio at Sony. All big exclusive PS4 titles look better than UE4 demos, on the PS4 Pro at least. Horizon Zero Dawn, God of War, GT Sport, Uncharted 4, they are great.
Less than now. They started by saying how you won't have to make a ton of versions for a model, or normal maps. You can just make one high-polygon version of an asset and the engine does the rest. This would lower budgets significantly and offer better quality in games, and it could also increase fidelity a lot with a bit of a higher budget.
As they said, just load the high-polygon assets and the engine does the rest. If that is indeed true (no reason to doubt it), it would be easier to make a game like this.
No. This obviously needs a very fast I/O system to work with this level of detail, that means SSD at a minimum. My guess is that ports of games like these will either use a tool of the engine to convert their assets to smaller ones for less capable platforms (like the PC for the near future, or older platforms) before distribution, so that their storage systems can handle them.
I would bet that at least on a PS5, all of that didn't use much CPU. So the answer to this might be "not as much".
Yes, the original Red Faction was like that. Half-Life 2 had better physics than the PhysX stuff and it was older. Everything in those demos is being casually done by most modern titles, including smoke effects.
I would complain about audio, for one thing. Not much progress since Aureal3D, really.
You have a point there, but this generation (the Xbox included), seems much easier to come to grips to, and develop for. I would say in about a couple of years after release, we will see games that are showing off what these systems can do. If not faster.
All these tricks that the engine has (like the automatic handling of really high polygon count assets), are great helpers for making games faster, not slower. This could literally save 5x the work from the 3D art pipeline.
Well they mentioned 'fluid simulation' as a feature and I was expecting real life like water interaction and fluidity. Instead it looked like the water was like jelly that gets stuck to her feet. It actually looks kinda like the T1000 in liquid form. That's why they didn't linger on it and only shown like 2 seconds and moved on.
No stuttering here.... Nvidia and AMD.
Hmmmmm where have you been??
Not every UE4 games has that , due to it having smaller assets the the ones that require bigger ones. like Fallen order for instance.
I'll have to give that game a go. Think it's on origin to play with their pass. Not sure. So many damn subscriptions I could be paying for something I don't even use...
What are you loading assets off of?? Mines m.2 gen 4 on both systems....
I'm 100% right.
It will no longer be a problem to make a miniscule change to the artwork of a game, which is the big thing that requires tonnes of work...and it's menial work at that, moving vertices 1mm up/down/left/right like it's the frickin' 1990's and you are using nurbs or some $hit. (As much as I dislike the 'special edition' of Star Wars in the late 90's, I have to take my hat off to ILM who used nurbs for character animation and must still wake up in the night sometimes thinking of moving all those points millimetre by millimetre)
Then you got all of that IK structural work for animation! Imagine the situation! You make a minor change to a toon because someone in another building said it needs doing, and then you get another person in another building telling another person that it isn't 'correct' and you have to then check your work, only to find it was fine, but due to a miscommunication between two people other than you, the animation isn't working as it was two days ago.
That's like...4 people tied up doing pointless menial work and comms trying to fix a problem...and then one of them had to go home, or go on break, or whatever and 3 people are now unable to move forward with other stuff because of this one extremely minor animation hiccup that was no ones fault.
Look at it like this (not directing at you Doc, but everyone) but for each hour lost is actually 3 hours.
1 hour to do thing you were supposed to do
1 hour that cannot be apportioned to the thing you should have been doing prior to redoing the thing you are doing
1 hour at the end to do something new
You can say the same thing about a whole day, it is actually 3 days.
Monday = lost day
Tuesday = completing Monday's work
Wednesday = starting the work that was meant for Tuesday.
Once you break these numbers out on a minute by minute basis, it creates 'crunch' - and a lot of the crunch work is optimization work.
UE5 (if what they are saying is true) removes optimization, and therefore, removes crunch - or at least, a significant amount that it no longer needs to exist.
Polygons too big - doesn't matter
Textures too big - doesn't matter
The two largest problems are no longer problems, by workload.
So i´ve seen the demo and some stuff looks amazing, like the rocks and the statues, and the textures on them are simply superb! The lighting was also cool, specially the little orb the girl had. The animations are decent and the water part was simply laughable, it looked like mud and almost ruined the demo...
The worst part is that this is just "another" amazing demo that is still a decade away from happening in real games. There is no frames counter for obvious reasons, no enemies, no explosions, nothing really demanding in the demo so they can showcase the pretty pictures otherwise would be impossible in a game. And the flying part was so scripted that i just loled at it.
In the end, this is a very nice demo of what graphics are going to look like in the future but nothing else. Also, i think that more importantly than having better graphics, it would be to have better AI, better destructible environments and better particle effects because what´s the point of having realist graphics if everything else is so dated that it holds back the rest of the game...