UK: Grant cuts for degrees !!

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Psytek, Nov 1, 2007.

  1. Psytek

    Psytek Ancient Guru

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    This proposal will mean that you can only receive funding for one bachelors level degree, and that any further bachelors degrees, masters degrees, teacher training courses and things like law school will cost almost four times as much.
    So a degrees course that currently costs ~£3000 per year, would cost ~£12,000 for anyone who has already studied one bachelors degree.

    I urge anyone in the UK to sign the petition against this proposal, as it will drive even more people away from the professions where we need them the most; doctor, teachers, lawyers, all will have to pay full price with no support from the Higher Education Funding Council for England.

    http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/HE-GRANT-CUTS/
     
  2. DrSiN

    DrSiN Ancient Guru

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    Honest to god can we please disband the ****ing government.

    Belgium manages without one , lets go government free for a term.
     
  3. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    that sucks guys, over here university is free + they pay us to go there.
     
  4. MikeMK

    MikeMK Ancient Guru

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    Well, its always been extremely difficult to get any funding for Masters degrees & PHd's from the government. I had to pay the fees for my Masters completely by myself. I considered doing a Phd, and while the university who offered me a place (Kings College) also offered a university grant, I could get no funding from the government and it just wasnt enough to pay for living costs, so I couldnt do it.

    I completely agree, education should be completely free for people. The current UK situation is ridiculous.
     

  5. Jimmy45

    Jimmy45 Master Guru

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    signed the petition, i just hope that it's worthwhile and it doesnt get thrown aside as a minority opinion, you know how good goverments are at throwing round figures and making it sound like people have any control over thier decisions.
     
  6. TeX_UK

    TeX_UK Ancient Guru

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    Good call Gov. they spend there grants on drink & drugs anyway, anything but learning & thats a fact for 90% of students...
     
  7. Psytek

    Psytek Ancient Guru

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    You obviously don't know what you're talking about. The grants are a subsidy which goes directly to the HEFCE so that course fee's don't have to be so high for UK nationals... Students never see penny one of the grant.

    You're getting confused with student loans and HE maintenance grants, without which I wouldn't be able to pay rent or feed myself... jackass.

    And if you even read the first post, you'd have noticed that this will mostly apply to people studying masters degrees, phds, teacher training courses, youth work training. You're accusing researchers, teachers, lawyers and welfare workers of being druggies??!?!?
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2007
  8. tuco

    tuco Ancient Guru

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    More whinging students. You get a good education so you can earn more money, so you can pay it off yourself. Why should I pay for your education, don't see you paying my bills, ever.
     
  9. arnie

    arnie Maha Guru

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    To all of these nay-sayers, when you are willing to return to a pastoral economy, then I will stop having the state partially fund my education. If not, I politely suggest that you all stfu.

    I suggest you all go and read up on how important an educated workforce is in todays globalised economy.
     
  10. tuco

    tuco Ancient Guru

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    Don't think I said I did not want an educated work force, I just don't want to subsidise their education since that training enables them to earn higher pay, so they can pay for it. Its not viable to fund all students these days in the UK, because of the high number of applicants. I can understand helping the less well off, but not those with parents with higher incomes.
    In places like Malta where there is a low student intake its easier to fund all for free, but in a large country like mine it becomes too much of a tax burden on the rest of society.
     

  11. jazziam

    jazziam Maha Guru

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    Thats the whole point though. Im planning on going University next year and planning on going to SEEC (part of university of essex) to do a Network Technology course. The Uni itself is 5 mins walk from my house. Im planning to go there because of financial situation. it means i can keep my part-time job at Powergen as a CSA and do Uni as well without the hassle of moving and trying to find a place.

    The only reason im able to go to Uni is because of Bursaries I wil get will help with my education.

    But seriously what I read above is a joke. If this country wants doctors, teachers then this is no way to go.
     
  12. scottyg2

    scottyg2 Master Guru

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    EVEN if this means you pay a little less taxes, it will still hurt you in the long run. There will be less qualified people which means the demand will go up, which means thier pay will go up, which means the services offered will go up in price. But hey, you just saved less than percent on your tax, which is all that counts, right?

    imho this is just another thing to widen the gap between those who already are rich and middleclass/poor.
     
  13. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    the way the government works it out here is very simple, they money/taxes spent post graduation will give more money in government coffers then the money spent in sending you to uni, also in the UK for example it could be done on a per degree basis..

    for example our government wants more ICT, engineers and doctors so what it did is removed the student maintenance(we actually get payed money) for others (such as communications, arts etc) and increased benefits to the ones doing more important work for example i get 1200 euros for books and 120 euros a month on expenses(b.eng).

    Otherwise i would have never afforded to enter uni...

    i guess in the UK the government cant stretch to actually pay students but courses such as medicine and stuff it deems of importance should be helped by having course expenses removed...


    Also the government here makes some more money off doctors by forcing them to work at least 3 years within the public health sector (since they got free med school) like that the government doesn't have staff shortages and doesn't risk having to pay foreign doctors thus increasing costs..
     
  14. tuco

    tuco Ancient Guru

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    Your asking poor people to fund the education of aspiring middle class students. Most taxes are paid by these groups. Taking money out of the less well off widens the gap betwwen the rich and poor.
    Good qualifications are no guarentee of high pay jobs true, but in genral they are better able to pay off debt's built up over time in higher education.
    Its important to remember what kind of courses these people are gaining, no point in churning out thousends of sociologists or media studies B.A's, we would be better served with scientists and engineers.
    This is why we need to start such courses at a younger age, vocational qualifications etc.
     
  15. Psytek

    Psytek Ancient Guru

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    This is the kind of selfish, ignorant attitude that perpetually prevents society from moving forward, because its full of lazy ****tards who want the world on a plate without having to lift a finger or give something back.
    "I want this, I want that, give me what I want and eat my **** for breakfast: slave"

    I think some of you (who don't know anything about how the country works) have missed the point.

    This has nothing to do with money that students get, this is not about loans, HE maintenance grants or bursaries... this is about how degree courses are funded.

    In the past, higher education was free, now we pay for it, and soon we'll be paying for it through the nose.

    Don't be fooled into thinking that this money will somehow be filtering back into society reducing your taxes or paying for anything to help you... this is money to pay for the governments mistakes, their budgets never quite add up, and they are looking to syphon money out of wherever than can get it. This isn't about regular students who study one degree, their degree will still be subsidised... this is sticking it to people who want to become teachers, youth workers etc... people who probably won't be able to afford to pay off the debts they incur until they reach middle age, people who are already treated like **** with abysmal wages (esp teachers) and people who we should be encouraging not scaring away.

    Its easy to spout the same old dogma about students whinging, sucking up your taxes, but just remember, graduates raise your children for you, graduates take care of you when you're ill, graduates run the economy and without them, you wouldn't be sitting up their on your high horse slinging **** at the people who keep you there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2007

  16. JohnMaclane

    JohnMaclane Ancient Guru

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    i have to agree on that but one must remember that its often schools/people that scare students away from the scientists since they always refer to them as hard and particularly laborious.. so students get frightened to try.
     
  17. Psytek

    Psytek Ancient Guru

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    But all the people doing the easy, 4-contact-hours-a-week, obvious-ology courses will still be getting their courses at the regular price, its people who have completed a bachelors and are subsequently studying something like a teacher training degree who get stiffed by this new system.
     
  18. tuco

    tuco Ancient Guru

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    I'd prefer it it if you did not refer to me a a lazy tard or anything else offensive thankyou. I work for a living, I don't moan about paying high taxes, and I subscribe to the belief that society needs quality services, paid for with tax.
    Don't stoop to calling me names which are blatently offensive, don't call me lazy or a selfish person, you don't know me, and frankly after your comments I would'nt want to know you. I suggest you take the time to rest in a quiet dark room for 10 minutes.
     
  19. InGen

    InGen Master Guru

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    Ok a few things i need clearing up...with the old grant proposal the entire course was paid for? or was a percentage paid? and how much did you guys have to repay?
     
  20. jazziam

    jazziam Maha Guru

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    I think Psytek would be the best one to answer your question mate, I have very little idea of how the re-payments work, all i know is that the loan itself you dont have to pay back until you are earning £15,000+ per year.

    But moreover I have also been thinking of becoming a teacher as well as you may not believe it but I actually DO enjoy teaching other people new things and furthermore, if I could at least have one person learn something new after a lesson I would be more than happy. But tbh it seems that the people who really matter in this country get screwed over.

    school, college, unversity its not about having a specfic career path. Its about learning life's skills. So you may never use Algbraic equations in real day to day life but the whole point is you learn how to solve problems and how to overcome the problem itself.

    You see, I dont know what I am going to be doing in 10+ years time, but all I know is that i want to achieve and do well so i can enjoy my life (something I learnt 4 years ago).

    People want to aspire because yes ok they want a better paid job, who doesnt, but want that feeling of success, to know that they achieved something, isnt that the point of living, to achieve goals and come through the challenges of life unscaved.

    I think i went abit off topic -_-"
     

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