U.S. gets C credit rating, lower than Mexico

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by Taint3dBulge, Apr 28, 2011.

  1. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

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    My view of America isn't actually from the news, I've actually met many Americans (I've probably covered more ground in the States than I have in Canada, which is a lil' sad seeing that I've been to more places in the States than my own country) who are either are like that. I'm not saying every single person is like that but the image from the people I've met and from the media creates this unpleasant imagery for a foreigner like me.

    Personally, I think Bush ran your country aground (not saying he started it, but he contributed a hell lot). Obama imo is trying his best to float the country, but doesn't seem to be able to ... I guess radical changes must be done in order to eliminate that debt which I don't see happening within our lifetime (trillions of dollars ... like really? I've never seen such a huge number before).

    Though, personally, I believe healthcare is a basic human right and is the responsibility of the government. I've seen news from the States blowing the Canadian health care out of proportion and those attack ads are an insult to Canadians. Yes, our system isn't perfect, but at least we don't die waiting (as some of these ads like to make people believe). Personally, I haven't met a single average joe in Canada that would like to privatize our system. We have different ways of fixing it, but no one wants to privatize it unless they're running their own private clinic. When I heard about "Obamacare", I was quite happy ... I thought the US has the chance to actually make a better version of our Medicare, but was then shocked to see so many Americans against it, which then I was like ... huh? why? Yes, it's paid by taxes, but hey, at least if I have some life threatening illness (and don't have the cash for it), I wouldn't have to mortgage my house, take out a loan or ruin my family's future just because I don't have the money to treat myself. I can't be that selfish to my own family right? I'm all about the government creating a social safety net, a just in case for the good of all.

    Of course these are just my humble opinion as an external observer ... I would really like to know why Americans are so against the idea of universal health care. I know my brother and I would probably run my family aground if it wasn't for universal health care.

    deltatux
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
  2. pmanipole

    pmanipole Master Guru

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    because it is being forced onto us. they are creating a huge new branch to cover less then 10% of the population. most of us already have insurance or pay for it out of pocket. i get mine for free at work and we pay for our kids to have it.
    show me one thing the US goverment has overseen that has stayed anywhere near the proposed budget?
    this is be the nail in our coffin.
    plus dont forget we are broke. we are 14 trillion in debt but are still spending like drunken sailors.
     
  3. Mkilbride

    Mkilbride Banned

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    Delta, there is a very vocal minority in America, most likely the ones you met. Though I agree, most of my country is retarded.

    Hell dude, I'll admit, I'm a little racist at times, sure, but I like Obama, I think he has a really tough time trying to keep the Ship called America afloat, when George Bush poked it full of holes. We had a national surplus before Bush, and after Bush? The largest debt in our history.

    I also agree that "debt" is an imaginary thing, like money. We have the military might that we could easily just wipe our own debt clear. I get that this is a civilized country / world and all that, but I think if we let our Country fall into the ocean and dissolve based on something WE made, that the only obligation we have to it is..well, morally, I guess, it would be right?

    I mean heck, people say when China calls in the debt, that'll be the end for us, and the country will dissolve. But I always think...why the hell would we do that?

    I mean we already have a terrible reputation, so what's not paying our debt thrown on the pile? I think regardless of the negative reaction the world at large might have, it'd be the dumbest thing we could do to destroy this country over a debt. Of course, not like China is going to call that in anytime soon. To profitable for them.

    You know what's funny, too? IF the richest men in America all donated half of their riches(they'd still be loaded as ****)to the American debt relief, it'd shave years off our economy recovering. Yet they don't. I really can't understand it.

    Bill Gates is literally donating half of his fortune to charity, along with 40 others, for well over 300BILLION dollars. Now that's just 40-45 people. There are hundreds of billionaires. If they all donate half their fortunes, they'd still be rich to do whatever they want in multiple life-times, and they could state they helped save the country to.

    I just don't get the mindset of rich people...probably while I'll never be rich. You see these people hit a 70 million dollar lottery, they buy a few million dollar house, 120,000$ cars, 10,000$ beds and random **** like that. I watched that show "Lottery winners" and saw a family do just that, when they promised when they won the money they'd donate a large sum of it to the local church. Now, I don't support organized religion, but still, it was promised...but they said they "didn't have the money for it" only a year later.

    It's pretty ****ed up that they can claim that after having 70 million. The average 4 person family survives on 1.7 million in their life-time. They had rough like 30-40 times that...

    I'm just saying if all the billionaires and millionaires donated money to the debt, we could recover the economy much faster...yet none do! If I had say like 80 billion, like that one guy, I'd donate half to the debt easily...or mroe, who knows. 1 Billion is enough for several generations of your family to live on easily, the high life, without working, if they do work, even more generations.

    I'm really confused about the whole state of money, and it annoys me. You got these Football Stars signing a 90 million dollar, 3 year contract...then 10 years later, they're flat our broke and doing bad movies and commercials for money. I know they say being rich makes you do stupid things, but cmon!
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
  4. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

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    if you guys had a national universal healthcare, then you wouldn't need to pay it up front, nor would you need to pay for health insurance for your kids as it will be covered by the government ... that's the point of universal healthcare.

    Canadians do also get medical coverage from their workplace or post-secondary education which is additional on top of, say my province's Medicare plan called the Ontario Health Insurance Plan (OHIP) which doesn't cover dental or eye exams for people over 18. It doesn't cover chiropractors either and so, those are covered by private health benefits. However, things that are serious like MRI or surgeries (not cosmetic or laser eye), are all covered by the province's insurance plan. Also, whenever I need to go see my family doctor, I don't have to pay anything except for medication. So, that's another thing I don't need to worry about.

    deltatux
     

  5. BigBlockTowncar

    BigBlockTowncar Ancient Guru

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    "In January, a Canadian Superior Court judge ruled in favor of the hospital, saying it could remove the child's breathing tube without a replacement, and issue a do-not-resuscitate order and recommendations on palliative care." (CBC--Baby Joseph)

    You can argue morally about whether or not it is worth extending a doomed infant's life on the dime of the taxpayer, or whether or not these people would be bankrupt if this had happened in the USA....the fact of the matter is that with a government run system you do not have absolute control over your family's health.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  6. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

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    While that case was ruled in favour of a hospital, the hospital still has to consult with the family before doing so. There have been talks about allowing assisted suicide as well for those who are terminally ill as well should the patient decides to do so (or parents if under 18). Furthermore, this ruling only applies to terminally ill patients that will pass away regardless within weeks (as a last option), if you can still live for a long while, then no, this order cannot take effect. However, in a private system, if you don't even have money, you don't even have a fighting chance to admit yourself to a hospital in the first place to seek any treatment (potentially causing a non-lethal situation ... lethal).

    Personally, I don't agree with this ruling either, but this is only one very small sliver compared to the system as a whole. Like I said, without OHIP, my family probably already filed for bankruptcy since we don't have any private insurance (only I have extra coverage but that's because it's through my school) and we do consult with medical professionals quite often. The universal public health care has done so much for my family (and many other families I know who are very dependent on this system and get great health care) this is why I don't get why people are so against this.

    Remember, whenever you nitpick an issue, you'll always find negatives and can no longer see the bigger picture.

    deltatux
     
  7. Taint3dBulge

    Taint3dBulge Maha Guru

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    The debt is all owed to the banksters.. We are printing money with interest.. We go to the Fed Reserve and say hey we need 500 billion dollars. They go ok. Here it is but you owe us 650 billion.. See ya later.


    This is a very very good watch if you have the time.

    http://youtu.be/_dmPchuXIXQ
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011
  8. harkinsteven

    harkinsteven Ancient Guru

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  9. harkinsteven

    harkinsteven Ancient Guru

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    I have seen that documentary before, watch the 3rd part (Zeitgiest Moving Forward) its pretty good, it actually gives a decent plan on how to get out of this mess. By the way I know the debt is owed to banksters but how about they fek off they have enough money. Its no longer greed with them, its all about power.
     
  10. The Chubu

    The Chubu Ancient Guru

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    +1

    I'd extend it to some state owned companies (basic services and some other things) but u ppl call that communism :D (wich i dun mind really, but for you thats worse than hitting your momma lol)
     

  11. scipio

    scipio Ancient Guru

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    America is down but not out, headlines are fast but history is slow. Give it time.
     
  12. nm+

    nm+ Don Cappuccino Staff Member

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    Really, a rating from a rating company (from ****ing Florida) no one has heard of trying to get attention?
    Holy ****, someone tell Standard and Poor or Moody's.

    A government with a fiat currency cannot pretty much not become insolvent Particularly when that government holds the world's reserve currency. Fear mongering over nothing. You notice that all the real debt crisis are in places where the Euro is. This is because these nations cannot change monetary policy on an individual basis. The United States (and the UK) can.
    Worrying about debt in a deflationary crisis is like worrying about a flood when your house is on fire. Sure, it could be a problem, but lets put out the fire, then re-enforce the levee.
     
  13. Leafblower

    Leafblower Ancient Guru

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    So about debt, I think maybe the U.S. should spend less so it has more money to pay it off.
     
  14. scipio

    scipio Ancient Guru

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    amen
     
  15. nm+

    nm+ Don Cappuccino Staff Member

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    Or maybe we shouldn't cut spending when no one else is spending. Cutting spending increases deflation. We need to stimulate.
    We need to poor some water on our fire and once the fire is out, we can pump out the water and improve the levee.
    Nearly all of the increased deficit between 2007 and today is not due to increased spending in a real money basis but rather reduced tax revenue due to the recession.
    Imposing policy that would increase the deflationary crisis would exacerbate the revenue problem.

    Commerce clause.

    The tea party reads the constitution, selectively and as it suits their interests while claiming they are reading it literally.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2011

  16. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

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    In a recession, you want your government to spend ... not save ... look at the depression when the US gov't just let the market "correct its course".

    All governments went on a spending spree when the recession hit (except those who filed for bankruptcy), Canada spent tons of money in the form of the Canada Action Plan (debatable on how effective that plan was is a different debate). The Chinese government also poured a lot of money in order to ensure that their growth wouldn't stagnate.

    deltatux
     
  17. nm+

    nm+ Don Cappuccino Staff Member

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    Well, it is more complex than that.
    In a deflationary recession, spending is the answer.
    In an inflationary recession, it is different. Monetary policy is better.
    During good times we need to pay down debt. The problem is during the last good time (2000s) we spend like a drunken high roller in Vegas.
    We will have to deal with the debt. Now is not the time. We need to increase revenue first.
     
  18. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

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    Yep, that is true, I guess I should have went deeper with my explanation lol.

    deltatux
     
  19. harkinsteven

    harkinsteven Ancient Guru

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    All this debt is owed to just a few men and its causing chaos throughout the world, honestly they can just get to fek if you ask me. Even if you took all the money in the world now and used it to pay debt it still wouldn't even pay off the debt. Its impossible. We as a people should not allow this to continue. Its driving the world into slavery for generations to come. I really wish the world would see this for what it truly is and act.
     
  20. scipio

    scipio Ancient Guru

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    It's easy to get elected in a bad economy by throwing stones, but not so good when people realize your real agenda, whilst dwelling in a house of glass.
     

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