TXAA Preview

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Spets, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. Spets

    Spets Ancient Guru

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    Does a really good job at it.
    Here's a post by Timothy Lottes talking about it:
    http://timothylottes.blog spot.com.au/2012/08/txaa-visual-q-and-about-stills.html
    (remove space)
    He makes really good comparisons there.
     
  2. GrandMax

    GrandMax Member Guru

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    I want TXAA in BF3. Hell yeah.
     
  3. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    So what happened to all the people who said it was just a driver block and it could be implemented for Fermi cards in the future. Is there now some official statement that proves otherwise? Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2012
  4. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    If Nvidia gives a reason for not making TXAA backwards compatible it will probably something along the lines of "it's too slow" or something retarded.
     

  5. VultureX

    VultureX Banned

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    Lol the article says almost double the fps of what you're getting at 4xTXAA:3eyes:
     
  6. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    pretty sure it still is :(

    but the TXAA is still not in it's final version, and it's impact will (hopefully) be felt further down the line (hello UE4)
     
  7. Lane

    Lane Ancient Guru

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    Lol, like if texture was allready not enough blurry with their AA method . Lets hope Nvidia fix it fast.. .

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=40758885&postcount=62

    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=40744976&postcount=36


    http://timothylottes.blogspot.de/2012/08/txaa-visual-q-and-about-stills.html

    The problem is maybe just Nvidia blur correction is too high, not well sized like for a movie. On a movie, the blur is added as the effect is pretty easy to use for correct the view and "make disapear " the difference between 3D objects or modified object vs the real one... In a game where all are 3D objects... its plenty stupid to use it at this level.

    should be fixable..
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  8. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    The problem is maybe just Nvidia blur correction is too high, not well sized like for a movie.

    No Lane. TXAA filter kernel size is actually slightly sharper than the one used in movies.
    Problem comes from the fact that movie frame is richer in details than the game frame.
    So when postprocessing blur is introduced in a movie, it still retains more sharpness compared to a game.

    Lod bias may be hacked into TXAA to raise game texture resolution.
    I have no doubts Timothy will solve this :)
     
  9. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    It almost sounds like timothy intended it to look that way.
    Man, if you disliked the was FXAA looked...

    Here is my question though, TXAA blurs out after your GPU bothers to render the textures. Sounds pretty wasteful having the GPU even render full-res textures only to have them blurred to hell afterwards.
    I'm not saying it's not a cool effect, it does look neat. But just sounds like a waste of GPU time if you ask me, rendering the textures like that. You would think it would make more sense to incorporate the loss of detail in the textures when rendering them. I don't know man. I don't think I like it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  10. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    He probably did, many people prefer a softer look and/or will do anything to eradicate all shimmering.

    I personally like it, though i can see some serious loss of detail on some of those shots, so it may need some tweaking.
     

  11. Spets

    Spets Ancient Guru

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    Personally I don't think it looks as bad as people are making it out to be, and it works wonders in motion.
    Luckily too though if you follow Timothy's blog and a couple public forums he's been on, there's still alot of work to be done with TXAA, just like FXAA used to.
     
  12. Cyberdyne

    Cyberdyne Ancient Guru

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    Yeah, I get that it can look cool. Imagine using it in a all cell-shaded game, would look amazing. Or maybe games where there is in general a higher focus on geometry rather than textures (a lot of indie games come to mind, fighting games too).
    Maybe I'm not making any sense when I say it seems pointless when your GPU bothers to render the full fledged texture only to blur out the detail, not that the look of that is bad, but it's a waste of GPU resources IMO. - having it generate one image to create another.
     
  13. Lane

    Lane Ancient Guru

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    Its a choice to made somewhere between the AA result and the way to use something who look like mipmap is on low. Some games will benefit better of it off course.

    Personally i dont install High res texture pack ( Like the skyrim patch )for on final have something who look like Rage textures ( ok im a bit bad there ). Peoples praise for High res textures, for increase the textures resolution and there you completely got the invert. At a moment Prtex should arrive on games, use an AA who make disapear the details of the texture is a bit strange even if finally higher detailed will be the textures, better will be the end results of TXAA.

    But there again, this is a personal choice and it will depend of the games.

    Its allways good to have the choice.

    Need more tests, tweaks, maybe someone will come with a 3th party tweaks too soon. ( Like Injector )
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2012
  14. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    I find it a bit ironic that now that we have graphics hardware that is capable of handling extremely high resolution textures that the anti-aliasing methods have moved away from MSAA/CSAA and SSAA to console-friendly low-overhead FXAA and now TXAA which blur some of that extra detail!

    I guess the extremely dated Xbox 360 and PS3 hardware are to blame for that but I really hope things improve with the release of the next-gen systems because I find FXAA on its own to be adequate at best (lacklustre at worst) but nowhere near as nice as MSAA/CSAA when they are working properly.

    Usually I prefer FXAA and MSAA in games like Max Payne 3 and Skyrim as together they remove pretty much all jaggies. FXAA is a decent substitute for the demanding SSAA and SGSSAA but it's no replacement for good MSAA/CSAA in my opinion.

    I'm hoping that TXAA will bridge the gap between FXAA and MSAA and offer the best of both worlds. If it does then I'd like to see that used on the next-gen systems instead of FXAA which to be honest can look very poor in some games that support that only. However, despite owning a GTX 680 for almost five months I've yet to see TXAA in any game which really is quite poor from NVIDIA considering it is one of its listed features! I was surprised when it wasn't even showcased in the recently released New Dawn tech demo.
     
  15. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    And you need 304.79 for it too which is a bit buggy for some.
     

  16. Darren Hodgson

    Darren Hodgson Ancient Guru

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    I had no problems at all with the v304.79 drivers nor the current v305.53 ones I'm using now. There again I only use one (24") display and play in 2D and I think those often contribute toward people's problems.
     
  17. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    I remember you talking about Vsync stuttering with 304.79?
     
  18. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    Ah wait UE4 aswell eh...that means i am gonna play a game which uses it =] Fortnite.
     
  19. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    From what I’ve saw TXAA is blurring textures a lot more than FXAA does, but its sole purpose seems to be getting rid of all aliasing and any shimmering, even at the cost of detail loss.

    As Timothy keeps mentioning, it’s a CG movie way of doing it, and in movies all aliasing is unacceptable, while a blurred texture here and there isn’t an issue as without seeing it beforehand as you won’t even know there is a loss of detail.
    Unfortunately with gaming we do tend to see the original texture beforehand.

    It’s not even to do with last gen consoles, or even low overheads, it’s to do with the fact traditional AA just doesn’t work with game engines these days, with MSAA/CSAA all you get is a huge performance penalty, but still end up with an aliased image.

    I downloaded the 50mb/s H264 1080p video of the Samaritan tech demo not long ago, and the YouTube compression doesn’t half hide the flaws, the original is full of aliasing and it no longer looks like it could be a CGI movie, but just a very good game.

    Cyberdyne, you’re making perfect sense, it does seem very inefficient to render the textures at the highest detail, then smooth away some of that detail, so maybe it will be improved as time goes on, and even if it doesn’t optional features are better than nothing.
     
  20. Noisiv

    Noisiv Ancient Guru

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    I am not entirely happy with TSW TXAA blur, but there is really no point in overly crying about sharpness.
    Because if it's ultimate sharpness you're looking for, you are looking at the entirely wrong spectrum of AA methods. You should be using MSAA, end-of-story.

    TXAA gets rid of with shimmering aka temporal aliasing aka aliasing in movement, and it is simply impossible to retain sharpness and deal with shimmering.

    From Timothy Lottes blog:

    • Anti-aliasing is always a trade off with sharpness, even when done correctly by super-sampling and a proper down-sampling filter.

      [*]There is a direct trade off between sharpness and temporal aliasing.

    This is also obvious if you set lod bias to some negative value, therefore increasing texture resolution. You get increased sharpness but the shimmering is also increased.
     

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