Turning NIS On in NCP causes performance degradation even when playing at native with 0% sharpening

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by BlindBison, Dec 1, 2021.

  1. xV_Slayer

    xV_Slayer Member Guru

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    I meant does having DSR enabled but not having the resolution selected degrade performance like having NIS enabled but not selecting the resolution or adding sharpening.
     
  2. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Even without this issue, NIS as a whole is flawed if it can only be used globally. Since the previous sharpening option is no longer available per game (unless NIS enabled), will revert to a pre-NIS driver.
     
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  3. aufkrawall2

    aufkrawall2 Ancient Guru

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    You can have the old sharpen back by activating integer GPU scaling. Yes, another weird design decision.
     
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  4. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Integer scaling brings its own issues. On 4k screens, some older RTS games dont scale well and the units can appear tiny (ie, Supcom FA). In such cases I have to use 1440p to enlarge them. But with IS enabled, it shrinks the game window down to where everything appears small again.
     

  5. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    Ok, what am I doing wrong, I tried enable IS but I lost high refesh rates at 2560x1440 and in-game I get a bunch of real low refresh rate options 23- 60hz.

    Monitor is LG27GP850.

    Edit: nevermind NIS is not supported on my GPU (gtx970).
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2021
  6. Mapson

    Mapson Member Guru

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    Posted this in another thread, reposted here for reference:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/rkoqzo/game_ready_driver_49729_faqdiscussion/hq9e2dq/

    Something is very, very wrong with the new scaling and sharpening on Pascal and Maxwell Cards

    Clean Windows 10 Image 21H2 19044.1415

    DDU, game shader caches cleared after each driver install.

    Division 2 built in benchmark runs on DirectX 11.

    497.29 (New Scaling / NIS)
    85,86,86 FPS Native Resolution, No Scaling, No Sharpen
    81,82,82 FPS Native Resolution, Scaling, No Sharpen
    90,91,91 FPS Scaled Resolution 85%, No Sharpen
    90,90,91 FPS Scaled Resolution 85%, 50% Sharpen
    Loss of framerate with native resolution and scaling enabled.


    471.96 (Old Scaling / Sharpening)
    87,88,88 FPS Native Resolution, No Scaling, No Sharpen
    88,88,88 FPS Native Resolution, Scaling, No Sharpen
    102,102,102 FPS Scaled Resolution 85%, No Sharpen
    100,101,101 FPS Scaled Resolution 85%, 50% Sharpen
    No loss of framerate at native resolution with scaling enabled and much better scaled performance when compared to new scaling / NIS.


    471.96 with Lossless Scaling application (like Magpie)
    96,97,96 FPS AMD FSR 85% with default sharpen
    97,98,97 FPS NIS 85% with with default sharpen
    Using a thirdparty application (Lossless Scaling) outperforms 497.29's new scaling / NIS on Pascal and Maxwell cards. Lossless Scaling supports NIS, FSR and other scaling methods.


    TL;DR Pascal and Maxwell owners may be better off with the older scaling and sharpening present in drivers 496.61 and older. Significant loss with new scaling and NIS.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2021
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  7. Mapson

    Mapson Member Guru

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    Maxwell is supported but there are some limitations
    • Image Scaling is not supported for Pre-Ampere GPUs while using the YUV 420 color format
    • Image Scaling is not Supported for Pre-Pascal GPUs while using the YUV 422 color format
    • Image Scaling is not supported in SLI Mode, Surround Multi-Monitor Clone/Duplicate Mode, Tiled Display, Direct Display, VR, and Integer Scaling mode.
    Full details at https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5280/~/how-to-enable-nvidia-image-scaling
     
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  8. EdKiefer

    EdKiefer Ancient Guru

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    Looks like the color format was set to windows default, the first time I used it I thought it worked and I had set the color format to Nvidia RGB, which I just set it back to.
    But I really don't need to mess with IS scaling games That I play are working well.

    Thanks for info.
     
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  9. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    I don't know for sure, but I believe it shouldn't assuming DLDSR works the same as it used to. It "shouldn't" have an effect so long as one is playing at native and not the higher scaled resolutions since the smoothness value shouldn't be applied either, but considering they had this big oversight for NIS who even knows at this point.

    I'm still pissed about this NIS issue, you really should be able to enable it globally with a sharpen setting of 0% (which could then be tweaked up on a per game basis as needed) and if playing at native resolution with 0% sharpen selected, there should be no performance hit if this was working right. It can't honestly be that hard to just put a few checks in place for 1) "if native rez" and 2) if sharpen 0% just treat NIS/Sharpen as being OFF if it's ON globally like this. Why they're not doing that already is just beyond me and what's worse is far as I know I can't exactly contact Nvidia with this information so who knows if they even know about it much less if they'll actually fix it.

    The other thing they should do is allow us to enable NIS per game profile instead of having to force it globally -- if they had done this then we could at least work around this performance bug in the meantime.

    @ManuelG This is an issue that really needs looking into -- as far as I'm concerned NIS is dead in the water til this is fixed. As an aside, as @RealNC pointed out elsewhere, it seems very strange to combine NIS and sharpen together -- sharpen should be split off to its own setting seems to me as someone may not want NIS scaling ON, but they may still wish to use the CAS Sharpen from the driver. Thanks,
     
  10. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    Optimus screwing up driver features is super annoying, I've noticed this as well. I have a laptop with a 1060 and some driver features just flat out don't work. Many features in Inspector don't work either (like half refresh v-sync).

    Every laptop built either needs a manual way to disable Optimus (a software or hardware switch) or they need to start having an automated way for the PC to know it's playing a game on power then just auto switch Optimus OFF seems to me.
     

  11. Neil79

    Neil79 Master Guru

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  12. cucaulay malkin

    cucaulay malkin Ancient Guru

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    the main issue with nis is that's it's ugly.
    switching it off and on in GFE is a minor inconvenience,not an issue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2022
  13. theahae

    theahae Active Member

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    You can disable the new NIS/sharpening with latest drivers (511.79 confirmed) with a registry key:
    Code:
    Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\nvlddmkm\FTS]
    "EnableGR535"=dword:00000000
    This will revert to older sharpening and scaling.
    Should be applied for pascal and earlier if you want to avoid the performance loss.
     
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  14. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    If i'm remembering right I thought there was a test on YT where using it from the control panel was slightly cheaper than using it via the geforce overlay.
     
  15. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    Nvidia themselves really should just split the two apart in an official capacity seems to me, but this is still great to know, thanks.
     

  16. TFL Replica

    TFL Replica Guest

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    Does anyone know if AMD's RSR has the same silly performance impact at native res and limitations as NIS? At this point I think the only thing that would motivate Nvidia into action would be if AMD has gotten it right.
     
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  17. alanm

    alanm Ancient Guru

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    Is it still an ongoing issue with latest driver? Never experienced it myself as I dont use NIS.
     
  18. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    It hasn't been retested on the latest driver as far as I know, but it "probably" is still present since Nvidia hasn't even acknowledged the issue as far as I'm aware. If you don't use NIS then you won't experience this behavior.
     
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  19. BlindBison

    BlindBison Ancient Guru

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    It does seem like Nvidia only take action when AMD does something -- the only reason they added NIS / more modern sharpening to begin with / ULLM mode and all that to begin with was because AMD was doing it seems to me.
     
  20. Mapson

    Mapson Member Guru

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    512.15 related at https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/com...dy_studio_driver_51215_faqdiscussion/i1sod9e/

    512.15 still has a performance penalty with Pascal and Maxwell based GPUs when using the new NIS (Nvidia Image Scaling) scaling and sharpening in drivers 496.76 and above. Workaround follows for Pascal and Maxwell, tested and benchmarked on 512.15
     
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