Turning GeForceFX to QuadroFX with SQ4 on 44.03. Important clarifications.

Discussion in 'RivaTuner Advanced Discussion forum' started by Unwinder, Oct 16, 2003.

  1. Morillo

    Morillo Member

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    GPU:
    Club3d 6800Ultra@Quadro4000
    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\3DSMAX\SUMMARY.TXT
    3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 26.53

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\DRV\SUMMARY.TXT
    drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 171.7

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\DX\SUMMARY.TXT
    dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 141.1

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\LIGHT\SUMMARY.TXT
    light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 34.21

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\PROE\SUMMARY.TXT
    proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 30.15

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\UGS\SUMMARY.TXT
    ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 10.20
     
  2. rathi

    rathi New Member

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    i've got an "GAINWARD FX Ultra/1300XT Golden Sample" (FX5900 Ultra)
    Has anybody experience in hardmodding that card to a FX3000? The boardlayout should be the same as on a "real" QuadroFX3000. R there any pictures or instructions showing how to HARDMOD a FX5900 (Ultra)?
    thx!
     
  3. Gnorkie

    Gnorkie Member

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    I've got the same card... (and also the same system!) Could you explain me how did you do?
     
  4. snowball

    snowball Member

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    This is the same post as in my other thread, just if you like to have one big thread:

    Hi guys, please help me, I have to buy 10 new cheap 3d workstations for Autocad ADT 2004 and Autodesk VIZ 2005 use. I thought, that the best budget solution is still the FX 5900 (/XT) and SoftQuadro 45.28. I used it for a long time and it was a rock stable driver for me.

    My question is: is this driver a good choice for computers that may work for 2 or 3 more years? I ask this because I think if I choose the SoftQuadro 3000 way, I will never be able to change drivers! (even, when XP64 comes out).

    The other solution is the ATI way, it seems, that Catalyst is much easier to hack than ForceWare, so maybe a 9800 Pro could be a better solution later.

    Are the MAXtreme + POWERdraft drivers really better than the FireGL standard OpenGL drivers?

    Oh, and do you have any experience between Asus P4C800-E + Northwood 3.4 vs. Asus A8V + Athlon64 3500+ for Autocad + 3ds max/VIZ use?
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2004

  5. AlecRyben

    AlecRyben Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    5x580 2x590 2x780Ti 1x970
    Never rely on modified/hacked stuff for real work, the genuine Quadros are manufactured with highest quality standards (top notch components) and they carry a 3 year warranty. If you are planning to be a pro, you will definitely want to try using Linux and for that you need genuine hardware.

    If you want cheap Quadros for 10 3D workstations, try buying a OEM 10-pack of Quadro FX 700 cards. You can get them for around $3000. That's a $300 per card, a great price if you ask me. Another option is buying a 10-pack of ATI FireGL X1 128, those can be had for about $2000 ($200 per card)

    And while we are on the subject of a best bang for the buck, the new Quadro FX 1400 PCIe is definitely a bargain - it's an underclocked 6800 NU native PCIe variant that is almost as fast as the $1500 Quadro FX 4000 and it sells for $600!
     
  6. snowball

    snowball Member

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    What is the most stable driver for SoftQuadro FX4000?

    I tried the newest WHQL, but it was very buggy with 3dsmax. What do you suggest?
     
  7. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    You mean "SoftQuadro FX4000" as in a SoftQuadro'ed GeForce FX 6800 ?
    No one have verified that this conversion is possible - yet.
     
  8. AlecRyben

    AlecRyben Ancient Guru

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    GPU:
    5x580 2x590 2x780Ti 1x970
    Clokkevi, where have you been lately? :rolleyes:
    Conversion is absolutely possible using the new NVStrap and works as it should!
    The final icing on the cake will be the BIOS patch in the next version of Rivatuner which will enable patching of the QuadroFX 4000 release bioses...
     
  9. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    W-h-a-t!?!:gape: :D
    This is very good news for me..!
    I have not been here for some months, yes..!

    Hmm - so, does this mean that all of the NV4x's may be SoftQuadro'ed?

    NV40:
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0040.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra"
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0041.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800"
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0042.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 LE"
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0043.1 = "NVIDIA NV40"
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0045.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT"
    will become different-speeded versions of
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_004E.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 4000" or
    NVIDIA_NV40.DEV_0049.1 = "NVIDIA NV40GL"

    NV41:
    NVIDIA_NV41.DEV_00C0.1 = "NVIDIA NV41"
    NVIDIA_NV41.DEV_00C1.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 "
    NVIDIA_NV41.DEV_00C2.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6800 LE "
    will become different-speeded versions of
    NVIDIA_NV41.DEV_00CE.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 1400"

    NV43:
    NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_0140.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6600 GT"
    NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_0141.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6600"
    NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_0142.1 = "NVIDIA NV43"
    NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_0143.1 = "NVIDIA NV43 "
    NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_0145.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6610 XL"
    NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_014B.1 = "NVIDIA NV43 "
    NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_014F.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6200"
    will become different-speeded versions of
    NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_014E.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 540" or
    NVIDIA_NV43.DEV_014D.1 = "NVIDIA NV43GL "

    NV44:
    NVIDIA_NV44.DEV_0160.1 = "NVIDIA NV44 "
    NVIDIA_NV44.DEV_0161.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce 6200 TurboCache(TM)"
    NVIDIA_NV44.DEV_0162.1 = "NVIDIA NV44 "
    NVIDIA_NV44.DEV_0163.1 = "NVIDIA NV44 "
    NVIDIA_NV44.DEV_0164.1 = "NVIDIA NV44 "
    NVIDIA_NV44.DEV_0165.1 = "NVIDIA NV44 "
    NVIDIA_NV44.DEV_0220.1 = "NVIDIA NV44"
    will become
    NVIDIA_NV44.DEV_016E.1 = "NVIDIA NV44GL"

    Correct?
    Wow - this sooo cool!
    Thank you very much, Mr. Unwinder!!
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2005
  10. antman64

    antman64 Guest

    golly. this could change my whole decision on what card im going to buy...

    surely a 6600GT is better than a Q540 though ? Hopefully when you say 'Different speed versions of..' it means that the card would not explicity act as a Q540, features wise. ? Sorry if i'm asking a stupid question but i'm far from an expert on this :p
     

  11. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    By "different-speeded" I meant that - e.g. on NV40, there are differrent speeds -

    GeForce 6800 Ultra : 400 MHz core, 2*550 MHz GDDR3, 16 pp, 16 tu, 6 vp
    GeForce 6800 GT : 350 MHz core, 2*500 MHz GDDR3, 16 pp, 16 tu, 6 vp

    I've also read that
    GeForce 6800 : 325 MHz core, 2* 350MHz GDDR2, 12 pp, 12 tu, 6 vp
    but I believe that's the NV41 version of it, rather than the NV40

    Then the
    Quadro FX 4000 : 375 MHz core, 2*500 MHz GDDR3, 16 pp, 16 tu, 6 vp

    So, while all 6800 versions will give all the SoftQuadroable features of FX 4000,
    their speeds will differ from each other, and from the speed of FX 4000.

    Speaking of the speed of FX 4000...
    At Leadtek, they have listed results for 3dsmax-02, proe-02 and ugs-03 for both 3000 and 4000:

    FX 3000 : 3dsmax-02 = 26.1 . . . proe-02 = 41.6 . . . ugs-03 = 44.4
    FX 4000 : 3dsmax-02 = 29.2 . . . proe-02 = 45.1 . . . ugs-03 = 59.0

    A 33% increase for ugs-03, but only 10% for the others.

    As I paid $150 for my SQFX 3000 (a total of $800 for my new pc, w/o monitor),
    I really doubt I'll run to the store and spend $400 for a 6800 GT
    so I can convert it to SQFX 4000 - if there's so little speed increase..


    Obviously, the enormous +200% speed increase for NV40 vs NV35 , is valid only for games, then..
    by DirectX 9.0 shader optimization and such, I guess.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2005
  12. antman64

    antman64 Guest

    Nice post dude. Thanks for the clarifications.

    I've gotta curse you now though for making my choice even harder :p See, I would get a 5900u as it would save me cash, but from what I beleive it's harder to Quadro an FX, doesn't supprise me as i've not been able to get this 5600nu to a Quadro sucessfully (performance wise). :(

    6800gt was an easy option really as it appears to be a doddle!

    How difficult was your card to quadro?
     
  13. antman64

    antman64 Guest

    Hmmm, just visited the leadtek site, and if comparing their bench results, even the 1100 isnt far off a 3000 or 4000, there must be more to it than that, or the ugs score is a lot more important than you think:

    FX 1100 : 3dsmax-02 = 26.9 . . . proe-02 = 37.9 . . . ugs-03 = 36.5
    FX 3000 : 3dsmax-02 = 26.1 . . . proe-02 = 41.6 . . . ugs-03 = 44.4
    FX 4000 : 3dsmax-02 = 29.2 . . . proe-02 = 45.1 . . . ugs-03 = 59.0

    in fact, they claim that the 3dmax score is higher than the 3000 !

    *cue outer limits theme sound *
     
  14. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    Well, I think that it wasn't hard at all!
    Just the plain old recipe..:

    Installing Detonators for GeForce 5900
    Installing RivaTuner
    Patching 45.28 Detonators ("SoftQuadro4 w2k.rts" & "NVStrap antiprotection w2k.rts")
    Installing NVStrap driver
    Setting PCI DeviceID to "Quadro"
    Rebooting, stopping "Found New Hardware" auto-installer
    Removing all old "C:\WINDOWS\inf\*.inf" files containing the word "nvidia"
    Installing the patched 45.28's from Device Manager
    Rebooting.

    But when comparing this to RT 15.3's new "no drivers patched" feature,
    (from what I've read so far, you should now use non-patched drivers)
    it *IS* a bit more effort..

    Hmm.. check this out..:

    NV25:
    NVIDIA_NV25.DEV_0250.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4600"
    NVIDIA_NV25.DEV_0251.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4400"
    NVIDIA_NV25.DEV_0253.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200"
    NVIDIA_NV25.DEV_0258.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 900 XGL"
    NVIDIA_NV25.DEV_0259.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 750 XGL"
    NVIDIA_NV25.DEV_025B.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 700 XGL"

    NV28:
    NVIDIA_NV28.DEV_0280.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800"
    NVIDIA_NV28.DEV_0281.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP8X"
    NVIDIA_NV28.DEV_0282.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4800 SE"
    NVIDIA_NV28.DEV_0288.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 980 XGL"
    NVIDIA_NV28.DEV_0289.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro4 780 XGL"

    NV30:
    NVIDIA_NV30.DEV_0301.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800 Ultra"
    NVIDIA_NV30.DEV_0302.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5800"
    NVIDIA_NV30.DEV_0308.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 2000"
    NVIDIA_NV30.DEV_0309.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 1000"

    NV35:
    NVIDIA_NV35.DEV_0330.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900 Ultra"
    NVIDIA_NV35.DEV_0331.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5900"
    NVIDIA_NV35.DEV_0333.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5950 Ultra"
    NVIDIA_NV35.DEV_0338.1 = "NVIDIA Quadro FX 3000"

    Do you see the patterns? For every new GPU,
    the highest-clocked Quadro is DEV_0xx8.1

    Now, your FX 5600, that's a NV31

    NV31:
    NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_0311.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600 Ultra"
    NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_0312.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600"
    NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_0313.1 = "NVIDIA NV31"
    NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_0314.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX 5600SE"
    NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_0318.1 = "NVIDIA NV31GL"
    NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_0319.1 = "NVIDIA NV31GL"
    NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_031A.1 = "NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5600"

    Here is the problem. There is no Quadro made from NV31.
    Therefore, we'll have to "make" it, and call it "NV31GL"

    So, to get your FX 5600 -> NV31GL,
    you must have a driver with a "nv4_disp.inf" file that contain this line
    NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_0318.1 = "NVIDIA NV31GL"
    and to get WorkStation Apps OpenGL settings menu, you also need this line:
    %NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_0318.1% = nv4_NV3x_WSApps, PCIVEN_10DE&DEV_0318

    You might just add them yourselves, at the proper places..

    And then, in the NV Strap driver, at the PCI DeviceID setting
    - you should select "Custom" and then "0318 .. ... .. "
    (I'm not sure what it says behind that number.)

    NB! The rule "for every new GPU,
    the highest-clocked Quadro is DEV_0xx8.1"
    is valid only from NV25 - NV36 it seems.

    NV10 - NV20 had "Quadro is DEV_0xx3.1"

    And in NV4x it seems DEV_0xxE.1 (and also DEV_0xxD.1 ?) are Quadros.


    But there are no DEV_04x8.1 nor DEV_04x9.1,
    - if there were, I guess they would also have been Quadro's...
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2005
  15. antman64

    antman64 Guest

    Interesting. Just tried that now, no luck with the method you described, with 45.28 anyway. All I got was the 'Error installing hardware' screen, 'driver not supported by XP...'

    Ive been told that 42.51 were the latest detonator to support the 5600 -> quadro but the .inf file didnt appear to use the same syntax for the driver descriptions... ie:

    .... NVidia.Nv31.1 = "NVIDIA NV31" ....

    no sign of .... NVIDIA_NV31.DEV_0318.1 = "NVIDIA NV31GL" .... style entries.

    anyway, I can't imagine my 5600 being much better in Maya as a fake Quadro, considering they didn't even distribute a real NV31 version :)

    * looks for 5950u on eBay *

    *edit*

    I did install the driver patches and installed nvstrap to custom 318 incase you were thinking I didn't do the install right. Ive had my card show up as an nv31gl before today on 42.51, had the pro features enabled (apart from AA Lines :s ) but my performance in SPEC and Maya was terrible.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2005

  16. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    I did a test once, it went from GeForce2@10fps -> SoftQuadro2@70fps..
    700% speed increase!

    That was the 3rd and 4th tests (of 11) in AWadvs-04 from SPECviewperf 6.1.2.

    Test 3
    [​IMG]

    Test 4
    [​IMG]

    The reason for the big speed increase for those 2, are that they are wireframe.
    In GeForce2 mode, the smooth shaded (in max 4) was more than 3 times faster than the wireframe.
    I thought for a long time that I had sat the viewport options incorrectly, but then I found the reason:
    This was because in GeForce2, the hardware T&L was turned off for wireframe,
    since GeForce2 was a game card, and no games use wireframes.
    People who used wireframe - had to buy Quadro2 instead.
    When I converted it to SoftQuadro2, the wireframe was 2 times faster than smooth shaded,
    since the rendering was now done in the hardware T&L engine.


    I'm not sure if this is true also for "GeForce5/6" -> "Quadro5/6"
    - that the hardware T&L is still turned off for wireframes in GeForce's, but you could check:
    the SPECviewperf 6.1.2 can still be downloaded, from
    http://www.spec.org/gpc/opc.static/prev_benchmarks.html

    Or, the 3dsmax-03 from SPECviewperf 8.1 can maybe also show this,
    its' 5th and 10th tests are wireframe - and should maybe show
    a several 100's of % increase
    from GeForce mode to SoftQuadro mode..
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2005
  17. lpotamianos

    lpotamianos Guest

    Sorry to interrupt. but I got a small problem.
    I am an experienced user, and softmoded my 5950 Ultra to a Quadro 3000. U used the latest Rivatuner, 45.28 and applied all the patches I had to. There were no problems during the sofquadro procedure. All went well.
    I installed maxtreme drivers, set Vsync to off in both Direct X and Open gl.
    The problem is that besides a slight increase in wireframe performance in max, plus the full antialiasing, there are no other gains. I understand that there should have been a great speed increase.
    Running Specview 8.1 I got a 19.60 3dsmax-03 benchmark. which I found quite low. Also, Maya was at 22.50 and ugs at 9 . Well,these are quite low benchmarks.
    What is going wrong? The system recognizes a Quadro 3000, is perfectly stable and everything seems allright. Anyone can help?
     
  18. antman64

    antman64 Guest

    In the end I didn't have the money to buy a card so Ive not actually been able to do the FX Quadro mod :(

    You weren't interupting, (look at the dates lol) :p
     
  19. clokkevi

    clokkevi Master Guru

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    GPU:
    GeForce GTX 680
    @lpotamianos:

    The 3dsmax-03 from SPECviewperf 8.1 can maybe also show this,
    its' 5th and 10th tests are wireframe - and should maybe show
    a several 100's of % increase
    from GeForce mode to SoftQuadro mode..


    Try looking at the detailed results view for 3dsmax-03, in

    C:\Program Files\SPECopc\SPECViewperf 8.1\results\3dsmax\viewperf.log

    - look at test 5 and test 10.

    It should look like (this are numbers for 3dsmax-02, not 3dsmax-03..!)


    Test Number 05: JugglerWire : Weight 17.00
    ...
    ..
    Number of frames run: 631, Test period: 13.062000 (sec)
    48.3 frames/sec


    and


    Test Number 10: ArchWire : Weight 17.00
    ...
    ..
    Number of frames run: 630, Test period: 12.437000 (sec)
    50.7 frames/sec



    Do this test both with SoftQuadro on and off, and compare.
    If they're equal, something is wrong.
    If the SoftQuadro is much faster - you've done it correct..
    ..which means you must just accept the speed you're getting..!
     
  20. lpotamianos

    lpotamianos Guest

    Thanx for your response. I noticed that I should try Spec 7.1 to get the numbers other people got, but following your instructions, I did notice an 100% increase in wireframe. So, until the next pc upgrade I will have to be content with that result!
     

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