Turning GeForceFX to QuadroFX with SQ4 on 44.03. Important clarifications.

Discussion in 'RivaTuner Advanced Discussion forum' started by Unwinder, Oct 16, 2003.

  1. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    First, I'd like to thank all guys who reported about successful NV30/35->QuadroFX modification with Detonator 44.03 using SoftQuadro4 scripts. It was a surprise for me and due to their reports I investigated this issue deeper and I can confirm that _some_ boards (probably GFFX only) are really moddable with SQ4 using early DetonatorFX versions (starting from 44.03 up to the latest non-encrypted 44.65).
    The explanation is pretty simple: NV's SQ4 protection system seems to be screwed for some boards in these drivers. Currently I've tried to use SQ4/NVStrap/NVStrap antiprotection for NV18 (the protection seems to work fine, OGL applications cause PC lockup during OGL context destruction) and NV30 (the protection doesn't work). I've also tried to update SQ4 for newer drivers and modded NV30 seems to work fine on 45.xx drivers too. In 5x.xx drivers modded NV30 behaves the same as GF4 - the OGL applications cause PC lockup. So the protection seems to be fixed.
    I'm not pretty sure if the hole in protection system is NV3x specific or it applies to some NV17/18/25/28. So any feedback is welcome.
     
  2. Bluefirexp

    Bluefirexp Master Guru

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    2x Gainward GTX460 GS 2GB
    Yes, protection is there on my NV25 ( Leadtek A250 LE Ti4200 ) and detonator 44.03- lockups in Specviewperf.
    I'm getting a Leadtek A350 TDH LX ( FX5900 ) tomorrow and will test it aswell :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2003
  3. MikeMcNuke

    MikeMcNuke Member

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    Hi Unwinder,
    just to give you some more verification: I sucessfully modded my GF FX 5900 Ultra with your scripts and the driver versions 44.03 and 44.65 as you said. WOW really great. Next week I will also try the rumoured hardware mod.
    cya and many thx for SQ and RT
    Mike McNuke
     
  4. Arty

    Arty Member

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    Thanks for the efforts everyone, and your great work untill today Unwinder.. :thumbup:

    I was about buy a new card either Radeon9800XT based one or FX 5900 Ultra based one, I was hoping to convert them to pro versions as I'm mostly working with 3D app rather than the games.

    As the FX3000 beats GL X2 in pro apps, I guess I'll wait a bit more until that thread reaches somewhere.

    I've read all the threads about FX to Quadro here. My question is, on the GF4 > Quadro mods there was hardware differences on chip and some features of the original quadro was not available after the mod.

    Is it still the same way with current FX > quadro mods? or are the chips same again just like the old days and modding can enable perfect quadro.. ?

    Thanks,
    Arty
     

  5. Bluefirexp

    Bluefirexp Master Guru

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    GPU:
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    interstingly Speviewperf 6.1.2 is causing a PC-crash already at the closing of the first window- so anytime a part of the benchmark is over and the window is going to close, the system hangs. But on Specviewperf 7.1 i can run about half of the benchmark- f.e. half of ugs-03- without any problems and only then there is a crash....
    It seems to me, as if the protection is application specific :rolleyes:
     
  6. Bluefirexp

    Bluefirexp Master Guru

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    GPU:
    2x Gainward GTX460 GS 2GB
    My A350 TDH LX is here, and with 44.65 it works now as Quadro 3000! :)
    3dsmax 5 with maxtreme is superfast now, Autocad also. I will add screenshots and bench-results l8ter :)

    EDIT: here my Specviewperf 7.1 results ( btw, ist there already a 7.1a?! ):
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    softquadFX5900LX @ FX3000 @ 400/700

    Athon XP 2.2ghz ( 11 x 200, 1024MB PC3200 timings: 11-2-2-2 )


    3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 23.40
    drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 89.18
    dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 95.13
    light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 27.77
    proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 20.80
    ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 9.102
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It's obvious- the mod works! :)
    Still, UGS-03 and PROE-02 are very slow, i wonder why FX5800 owners have so fast UGS and PROE.

    ...But i'm very happy with this overall result and the card is even not OCed and just @700mhz DDR.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2003
  7. Since I'm using a Geforce FX 5200 would you recommend the highest compatible driver is the 44.65 using SQ4/NVStrap/NVStrap antiprotection?

    Also, when will there be an update for the Detonator FX Decoder? I tried using it with the 52.13 drivers but it wouldn't patch.
     
  8. Bluefirexp

    Bluefirexp Master Guru

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    GPU:
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    yes 44.65 is highest working until now.
    btw, even a stupid FX 500 is faster in UGS and PROE than our softmodded FX5900@FX3000 cards, that's too strange...:rolleyes: . This incredible slowdown just can't be only hardware related, there must be some protection in FX3000 driver still...coz all other scores are as fast as real Quadros..
    And the FX5800@FX2000 doesn't have this problem, as we see from posts in this forum..
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2003
  9. AlphaTier

    AlphaTier Guest

    I think this is caused due the lak of Registercombiners, NV replaced them with FP-units due better DX9 Shader-Performance.
     
  10. Samiam

    Samiam Member Guru

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    anything above 42.51 locks up my 4200 using SQ. I tried 44.03 and got lock ups.
     

  11. Bluefirexp

    Bluefirexp Master Guru

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    Well, but why is then a REAL Quadro FX3000 faster than a FX2000 in PROE and UGS? There should be also the same difference as with the soft-modded cars i think...:rolleyes:
     
  12. ronaldy_s

    ronaldy_s Guest

    Well, we just have to wait the REAL SoftQuadroFX then. Maybe there is some features can not be turn on by SQ4 script.
    This is my latest test using Athlon XP2600+
    Run All Summary

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\3DSMAX\SUMMARY.TXT
    3dsmax-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 21.59

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\DRV\SUMMARY.TXT
    drv-09 Weighted Geometric Mean = 123.2

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\DX\SUMMARY.TXT
    dx-08 Weighted Geometric Mean = 107.5

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\LIGHT\SUMMARY.TXT
    light-06 Weighted Geometric Mean = 23.66

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\PROE\SUMMARY.TXT
    proe-02 Weighted Geometric Mean = 35.93

    ---------- SUM_RESULTS\UGS\SUMMARY.TXT
    ugs-03 Weighted Geometric Mean = 44.45

    Maya Benchmark 5 GFX score 2.55, Total score 2.25
    3DMark2001 score 13433
    3DMark2003 score 5432
    (I don't understand why I got such a low scores on 3DMark tests)
     
  13. AlphaTier

    AlphaTier Guest

    u have a proof for that? i, wanna see myself.
     
  14. Bluefirexp

    Bluefirexp Master Guru

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    yes- check out here
     
  15. Unwinder

    Unwinder Moderator Staff Member

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    Very important info update

    After investigating this situation a bit deeper I was able to find out the following:

    1) There is no need to install SQ4. Professional capabilities on my NV30 are unlocked in case of installing only NVStrap/NVStrap antiprotection.
    It seems like NV don't use GF4-styled PCI DevID override protection on NV3x, so the only differences between pro and gaming boards are PCI DeviceIDs again. The only conclusion I can made from it is that pro and gaming GPUs are equal again.
    Considering the fact that NVStrap programs PCI DevID strapping bits that can be also hardwired via the configuration resistors on the PCB, I can say with 99.9% warranty that hardware mod is also possible.

    2) Considering that fact that even in case of installing NVStrap/NVStrap antiprotection on 5x.xx I get lock ups in the OpenGL applications, I can assume that these drivers set introduce new type of protection against NVStrap (probably OGL driver checks hardwired ID). No promises on developing new generation of antiprotection scripts ;)

    P.S. I don't know if it applies to whole NV3x family or to NV30 only. So feedback from NV35 owners is welcome. ;)
     

  16. Bluefirexp

    Bluefirexp Master Guru

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    Yes, i had these assumptions also, i posted in this thead: http://www.guru3d.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66749

    The only strange thing was the lowe performance in UGS03 and PROE02 of a softmodded FX59000>FX3000 compared to a FX2000. :rolleyes:

    And now i tested, applied ONLY Nvstrap-antiprotection to the driver and installed NVstrap: my NV35 card doesn't work as Quadro without SQ4. :O
    Sandra reports Quadro FX300 OpenGL driver, the card is recognized as Quadro FX3000- BUT performance is low, 3dsmax doesn't find a quadro card also and the OPenGL-properties-tab doesn't contain the specific quadro options.

    So without SQ4 the Quadro-mod doesn't work on my FX5900 ( NV35 )

    Regarding the UGS and PROE performance weakness of my card now even with SQ4, i think, that the FX5900 seems to be hardware-different from a real Quadro FX3000 GPU.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2003
  17. Bluefirexp

    Bluefirexp Master Guru

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    So you lucky NV30 users, but i don't need UGS performance luckily :p
     
  18. ronaldy_s

    ronaldy_s Guest

    Well, it still nice to have no hardware-different from QuadroFX, just like my FX2000 (even faster with 500/1000), it seems that no tests can tell the different between a REAL QuadroFX2000 to a SQFX2000.
     
  19. AlphaTier

    AlphaTier Guest

    Perhaps, it does not work, cause of we used the 44.03 driver, that has no Q3000 support. Perhaps they integrated the Special features in later Drivers. Tanks to UDA the Cards worked 4 us, but not fully accelerated. Mhm, but how 2 proof that??
     
  20. AlphaTier

    AlphaTier Guest

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