TSMC Fab 14: Wrong chemical usage renders thousands of wafers unusable for NVIDIA (and others)

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Jan 29, 2019.

  1. screwtech02

    screwtech02 Member Guru

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    Oops, appears the "end user" is gonna get another ANAL FLEECING on prcing again......
     
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  2. ManofGod

    ManofGod Maha Guru

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    Hey look guys, the new fire / flood excuse.
     
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  3. Size_Mick

    Size_Mick Master Guru

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    You forgot earthquakes.
     
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  4. yasamoka

    yasamoka Ancient Guru

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    I'm not going to do your work for you. I'm not the one making the claim here. Either you defend your claim or you can **** off with your nonsense. You need to start understanding how evidence works and that you will be called out if you don't provide it. This merely started as a simple request where I asked you for a source since this may as well have been conjured in your delusional head. Your failure to even comply with a simple request proves how much bullshit you conjure up every day on this forum.
     
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  5. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    I am sorry. But this is exactly why You are one who should come and provide any remotely meaningful evidence before you dare to write post like this.
    And I am not sorry to say that exactly this response is expected from you. There are people I argue with. There are people I disagree with. And then there are people who always have more hate at store. (The ones I have no respect for.)
    = = = =
    Now, let's say that generic value I provided is not accurate. Let's say that 12~16 wafers goes for $1500 or $6000. And let's say that I absolutely wrote wrong number...

    Is the number reason to write such text as you did? Then read it after yourself and in right mind press "post reply"?
    We know each other's posting style quite well. After all the experience, don't ever expect that I'll consider you as non-hostile.
     
  6. ivan

    ivan Active Member

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    Karma is a MF Nvidia........ that's what you get for overcharging your monopoly market ran GPUs
     
  7. Margalus

    Margalus Master Guru

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    It's amazing how many people here are blaming NVidia for something that happened at a completely different company..
     
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  8. Amaze

    Amaze Ancient Guru

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    It's like cheering for disaster at TSMC, I don't get it.
     
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  9. slyphnier

    slyphnier Master Guru

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    dude chill of, u saying things and other asking for the source,
    imo its reasonable to provide it so
    or else, then its not their fault if they said ur BS-ing

    actually $3000 for 10k waffers caught my attention to,
    do quick look on google
    https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20180629PD215.html
    "The average selling price (ASP) per square inch of silicon wafers came to US$0.86 in the first quarter of 2018"
    https://www.sourcetoday.com/supply-chain/expect-silicon-wafer-tags-rise-through-2019
    well ur price sure off, considering a square-inch already cost $0.8
    so basically u saying just out of ur imagination ?
     
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  10. tensai28

    tensai28 Maha Guru

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    These people are human; prone to mistakes like everyone else. Give them a break, I'm sure they will try to clean up the mess. They are a big and reputable company. I used to live down the road from this company and had neighbors that work there.
     

  11. Dragondale13

    Dragondale13 Maha Guru

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    Saw what you did there! :)
     
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  12. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Maha Guru

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    I'm pretty sure we are talking about wafers that have not been through lithography yet except say a couple wafers when they realized nothing passed the QA testing. Se we are in the $200-500 range per 12inch/300mm wafer.
     
  13. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    They also suspended the production line to run an investigation - so it's going to cost more than just the wafers lost.
     
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  14. Mda400

    Mda400 Master Guru

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    We are use to computers doing more work for us these days, we start to treat humans more like them.

    Something like this could also be malicious, given how it will affect the major companies in their respective markets. Wouldn't be surprised if they investigate.
     
  15. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    That's interesting reply. 30cm wafer (12 inch) has radius of measly 6 inch. What is surface area there? Is that really just 113 square inches? Therefore whole 12 inch wafer costs mere 113 * $0.8 = $90.4 ?
    That would be really lovely, right? 10,000 lost wafers costing mere $900,000? And someone makes news from that? Maybe.

    Or did you do another math? Anyway, what is surface area of 2080Ti? What? 1.17 inches square? What does it cost to make if yields are 10%? Whooping $10?

    No sorry. You do not go and build $4B plant to produce 50,000 wafers per month there at price of $100 per wafer. because RoI would be over 60 years.
    http://www.icinsights.com/news/bull...logy-key-to-strong-foundry-revenue-per-wafer/
    I do not think that things changed much. Current node having large number of FABs costs around that. Leading node can be up to 3 times as costly till it reaches volume production.

    @JamesSneed : I think your number of loss per wafer is rather optimistic. One should consider statement: "This will affect production yields". That means they are far enough in production to not cancel over 10,000 wafers.
    Which is over 10% of monthly production of that FAB. Secondly, throwing affected wafers and starting with new ones would mean that they lost entire potential revenue as : "No delivered wafers = no payment."
     
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  16. waltc3

    waltc3 Maha Guru

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    Yep...I read this article elsewhere before reading it here, and it looks like this sort of thing is routine--just a part of doing business.
     
  17. jbmcmillan

    jbmcmillan Ancient Guru

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    Not if you make it factual and not some conspiracy dream you are having. Like the crap you were spewing in the AB thread.
     
  18. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Maha Guru

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    @Fox2232 I could be wrong but I assumed the 10K wafers are all the wafers they treated with said corrupted chemicals. If they did get those blank wafers up to lithography then yeah its a factor more cost to them. Of course they have some fixed costs like having production down and having to toss all the bad wafers out. I was just commenting on the $3,000 per wafer it might be more like $300 per wafer which with 10K wafers its like $3M vs $30M on wafer losses alone. From what I have seen 12inch wafers can be had for $200-700 but that is the forged silicon cut into wafers nothing more and its not the medical grade stuff you would use for some very high end SOI chips etc.
     
  19. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    Yes, but it took time to process them with bad chemicals. Time which would have to be invested again. And I really wonder about that statement hinting that they are going to use affected wafers.
    Anyway, be it $3M or $30M in total. I think that it is non-consequential for final pricing or availability of nVidia's products. And there I think we agree.
     
  20. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    I'm not sure what you're trying to say here

    10k? where did 10k come from?

    3000? Where did this number come from? $3000 per wafer, or $3000 in total damages?

    Edit: Ah, i see, guru3d post did not give the whole information.

    Granted, every article i have seen so far says over 10,000 wafers lost, not 10,000.
     

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