TSMC and GlobalFoundries Announce Resolution of Global Disputes

Discussion in 'Frontpage news' started by Hilbert Hagedoorn, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. Hilbert Hagedoorn

    Hilbert Hagedoorn Don Vito Corleone Staff Member

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  2. Lavcat

    Lavcat Master Guru

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    There is still some sanity in the world.
     
  3. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    It's pretty weird they needed the theatrics to reach this conclusion. Since I'm still disappointed in GF dropping out of the nm race, I could imagine GF doing this to weigh their current value in the competitor's eyes, to see if they still matter enough for TSMC to make a deal like this with them.
     
  4. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    Basically the corporate equivalent of the following:
    GF: Spontaneously slaps TSMC in the face out of envy
    TSMC: Pulls out a giant knife
    GF: "I was just kidding, bro!"
     

  5. JamesSneed

    JamesSneed Maha Guru

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    Make no mistake the fact TSMC did a cross licensing deal means they do not value GF as a direct competitor. TSMC gets to buy a never sue me again for a decade pass by allowing a company that will not compete with them to have access to their IP. Frankly TSMC was about to lay waste to GF in court because not only does TSMC have patents for everything they do(every foundry does) they also actually make things using said patents. Plus TSMC is very profitable they could have drug this out over years and not flinch. I honestly feel GF was looking for cash as they need it badly but once they sat down with TSMC's lawyers and realized that was never going to happen so settled for this in turn.

    I too was pulling for GF but once they killed 7nm they really committed foundry suicide. They will not be around in 10-20 years as all these new fangled 7nm process become dirt cheap they will be left behind.
     
  6. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    You say that, yet it seems like GF won in this deal.

    "The companies have agreed to a broad life-of-patents cross-license to each other’s worldwide existing semiconductor patents as well as those patents that will be filed during the next ten years as both companies continue to invest significantly in semiconductor research and development."

    This seems like a win for GF and basically pointless for TSMC
     
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  7. schmidtbag

    schmidtbag Ancient Guru

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    As far as I'm concerned, GF didn't win anything, they just got away without getting "stabbed". As far as I'm aware, TSMC was aware of the patent stuff for a while but did nothing about it since GF wasn't a threat to them. Only until GF started acting up did TSMC decide to countersue, at which point GF was like "oh crap I'm going to lose here". So basically you can look at this as if TSMC with their big shiny knife said "behave yourself if you want to remain in business. Drop these charges and we'll get along".
     
  8. Fox2232

    Fox2232 Ancient Guru

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    More like:
    GF: Throws a rock under TSMC's feet.
    TSMC: Picks very same rock and throws it under GF's feet.

    Then both shake hands and throw rocks at intel's head.
     
  9. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    I find it a bit hard to believe GF would be that foolish. I mean, even we can sit here and write plausible theories, so GF should be able to do the same. It's hard to imagine this outcome wasn't the one they were aiming for from the beginning. They most certainly wouldn't have dreamed of scoring massive wins against TSMC in the court, no matter how ridiculous the American courts are. TSMC would have had the cash to hire the best army of lawyers, after all, and the attitude to do it, unlike many victims of patent trolls and RIAA. That's why I said I don't quite get why they needed the whole process of sueing for nothing in the first place. Maybe TSMC ignored GF's phone calls and this was the only way of getting their attention.
     
  10. Denial

    Denial Ancient Guru

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    A long time but they also tried doing it like 5 years ahead of the competition and seemingly the issues they ran into were resolved with the tooling - the same tooling that TSMC uses. I think at this point ASML is the only company capable of building tools at sub 14nm that the foundries use so they're all kind of dependent on them getting it right.

    These things happen though - 20nm for example was a massive failure for TSMC/GF when they decided to go for planar instead of finfet. The challenge with these technologies is that a bunch of stuff needs to come together to make it all work but you have to start the development 3-4 years in advanced and rely on multiple different companies getting everything right.
     
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  11. Aura89

    Aura89 Ancient Guru

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    Wouldn't say it's been resolved, as if it were, desktops wouldn't still be waiting for it.
     
  12. Kaarme

    Kaarme Ancient Guru

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    Intel has the problem of facing more demand for their products than they can manufacture. So, they can't spare 10nm capacity for the desktop products. It's quite an undertaking to launch a new product on a new production line (process node), so there's no sense to do it if they can't do it in sufficient volumes, especially since it would mean being able to make less of some other products they know they can sell fully. At the moment, they aren't yet in terrible trouble against AMD, either. Aside from Intel stock owners, this isn't actually a bad news for the market since it allows AMD to accumulate some funds it sorely needs to stay competitive. At the end of the day Intel is still a goliath compared to AMD. Sooner or later Intel will inevitably make a comeback anyway. They are building a new fab or two as well, so once those are online, their problems will be majorly alleviated. Luckily for AMD, TSMC is also expanding their facilities.
     
  13. NewTRUMP Order

    NewTRUMP Order Master Guru

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    You don't sue a rival company blindly and not ponder the consequences of that action. GF is a multi billion dollar company too. They were seeking to ban TSMC from being able to sell products in America and Germany, along with patent infringements. I am sure they got TSMC's attention with President Trump on the war wagon with foreign companies doing trade in America. Companies only come together when it is of mutual benefit to both of them. They ultimately have to explain their actions to the stock holders. So I am sure GF was not intimidated in to a mutual agreement.
     
  14. Celcius

    Celcius Master Guru

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    As I see it, TSMC blinked first. It's hard for me to see how this is anything other than a victory for Global Foundries. (Deserved, or not.)

    Look, I don't have any more insight into whether GF's claims had merit any more than anyone else does, but in the space of a few weeks, GF seemingly has acquired access to technological data and manufacturing techniques they may not either have previously possessed, or been able to legally leverage in the past. And, presumably, the ability to market products developed and manufactured as a result of this outcome. If TSMC was truly guiltless, and had the financial resources to crush Global Foundries in court, this isn't the settlement I feel most would have expected.

    Who knows, perhaps a year or so from now, in part due to the result of this legal dust-up, GF announces they're reigniting their effort towards a 7nm manufacturing program? Wouldn't surprise me.
     
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  15. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

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    Thats because you don't understand what was happening.
     

  16. Celcius

    Celcius Master Guru

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    Sure. You're right. Of course I don't.

    Whatever makes you feel better.
     

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