Triple Buffering and Anisotropic Filtering Optimization.

Discussion in 'ATI Tray Tools Generic Discussion' started by Cogwheel, May 23, 2006.

  1. Cogwheel

    Cogwheel New Member

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    Just two small questions here.

    1. About Triple Buffering, I've finally noticed that ATT is cool enough to have an option via its game profile feature to force enable Triple Buffering in D3D games. And that's great, but I have a question about TB that's probably ignorant, but I gotta ask cause it's bugging me.

    Is there any performance bonus from enabling TB if you DON'T have vsync enabled as well? Does it just do nothing then, or does it actually hurt fps, or even actually help it? Logically, I would assume not, since, from what I've read, it's just to aid fps when using vsync.......but I keep thinking about Doom 3. An OpenGL game and not Direct3D, I know, but nevertheless I remember how even if you didn't have vsync on, enabling TB in the opengl control panel tab gave you like 5-10 extra fps, again, whether or not vsync was on. So I just wonder if it's possibly the same for Direct3D.


    2. Concerning the Anisotropic Filtering Optimization option in ATT. Now, I just wanna be clear on this.....does this optimization purely improve the image quality, or does it also improve performance? For example, which would be the best setting for pure performance: AF at 2 sampling in Performance mode WITHOUT the AF Optimization checked, or AF at 2 sampling in Performance mode WITH the AF optimization checked. I'm just not entirely clear on this, and I want to be.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2006
  2. Stephen M. Smit

    Stephen M. Smit Active Member

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    Hmmm, I've always assumed that Anisotropic Filtering Optimization (and the Trilinear optimization) increased performance at the expense of image quality. But I could be wrong.
     
  3. Ray Adams

    Ray Adams Ancient Guru

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    No, you right :)
     
  4. Stephen M. Smit

    Stephen M. Smit Active Member

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    Yes!! lol

    I should also add, I've never been able to tell any difference performance-wise or quality-wise from enabling either or both...

    As far as enabling TB w/o VSYNC, I don't think there's any performance increase or decrease at all b/c the 3rd buffer is never used. But... your wasting a big block of video memory.
     

  5. Cogwheel

    Cogwheel New Member

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    Okay, just making sure. The only thing that happens is memory is wasted.

    Just wanted to get a direct answer from somebody so I could stop being paranoid about it. :)


    And Mr. Adams, this is a small thing, but you may wanna consider re-wording the help description of the AF optimization in ATT. Why I say this is because by describing it as "offering enhanced image quality while maintaining high 3D performance levels (like Performance type) but with better quality than Performance", implies that the AF Optimization is a quality improvement optimization first, and a performance improvement optimization second. Thus, this suggests that for best possible performance, you should leave it off and just put the AF in Performance mode. This is why I was confused on the issue.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2006
  6. Ray Adams

    Ray Adams Ancient Guru

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    No. Only if comparing with standard Performance mode! Lets say, with this option your speed and quality somewhere between standard Performance and Quality modes
     
  7. Cogwheel

    Cogwheel New Member

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    Ah. That's what I wanted to know. Right then, I think I'm clear on this now. :)
     
  8. Numinous

    Numinous Master Guru

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    After reading this thread I went ahead and unchecked both the AF optimization and the Trilinear optimiztaion then lowered the A.I from High to Low. To be honest I do notice some better image quality in games and no performance hit at all. So better image, same performance...
     
  9. Soilwork

    Soilwork Master Guru

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  10. GODzillaSDM

    GODzillaSDM Ancient Guru

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    Soilwork, very informative link. thanks!

    I also read somewhere before that another negative point of triple buffering is that you lose a little more accuracy in fps games.

    The reason, quote "What you see on your monitor is what has been computed 2 frames ago (instead of one frame ago in case of double buffering). At 60hz, that means you see what has been computed at least 32ms ago (16ms with double buffering). While this is not so bad, that's a slight delay that you may feel when playing (everything is slightly delayed before you can see it on the screen, often a reason why people complain about 'mouse lag'). Also, if your card can't compute that many frames a second, that's even more delay you'll have to wait."

    from http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?t=33746767
     

  11. Soilwork

    Soilwork Master Guru

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    never experienced mouse lag ever and I always use triple buffering
     
  12. EvanC

    EvanC Member Guru

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    I enable triple buffers in all my d3d games. I always enable vsync since my lcd has a low refresh rate. With triple buffers on I see about a 10-20fps increase in alot of games. Games like oblivion dont see any increase since my processor is a bottleneck in the game...

    Triple buffers doesn't cause mouse lag, vsync does. If you set the option of "Flip Queue Size" to 0 you can get rid of the mouse lag. Flip Queue Size is the same as Max Frames Rendered Ahead for nvidia cards.
     
  13. GODzillaSDM

    GODzillaSDM Ancient Guru

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    How do you Flip Queue Size or set Max Frames Rendered? In the game config files?

    Also, when you set it to 0, doesn't that really cancel out triple buffer? Aren't they contradicting ideas? Triple Buffer is really an extra buffer. Aren't buffers really rendering in advance? Maybe im misunderstanding the idea. Please enlighten me. thanks.
     
  14. EvanC

    EvanC Member Guru

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    I have no idea now that I think about it.. lol. All know is I get decent FPS even when its at 0. I'll try it at 3 and see what that does...
     
  15. BuildeR2

    BuildeR2 Ancient Guru

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    Wow, this is some good info. I've been running optimizations on and A.I. on high ever since I started using ATT. I'm gonna turn of the opts. and see what happens ingame. Also, what the heck does Catalyst AI do? Something with the processor helping load stuff for the GFX card or what?
     

  16. tigen

    tigen New Member

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    Catalyst A.I. turns on app-specific driver optimizations. Basically, the driver developers can improve performance or features for specific game/apps, but only when the driver detects a certain app is running. There was a lot of fuss about drivers and "cheating" on benchmarks a while ago. So ATI has this Cat A.I. switch to let you turn that kind of optimization off.

    I would leave it on max since I doubt there's any visual difference.
     
  17. EvanC

    EvanC Member Guru

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    oh theres some visual difference, but slightly. Like in CSS theres a slight visual difference in the carpets in office and stuff.. Minor and performance gains are nice.
     
  18. Jelle Mees

    Jelle Mees Banned

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    What is the latest directx Tweaker version?
    I downloaded beta 3.
    I am gonna try to force tripple bufferig in America's Army, hope it works!
     

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