Tip for nVidia users using HDMI and getting accurate color format

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by jwb1, Nov 18, 2012.

  1. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    Thanks for this thread.
    My display (LG DM2780D passive 3D) using the standard MS pnp driver (oddly?, it should be using the one I installed) shows full RGB without any tweaks, so didnt need that.
    However I know some people who will be very pleased with it.

    The calibration website posted by Jonny3D is great!
    Here it is again in case anyone missed it
    http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/
    I refined my display a little, black definition is improved and colour balance is a little better, much pleased.
     
  2. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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    You could be viewing compressed RGB if your card is sending 16-255 data and your TV have HDMI Black Level: Low. On your eyes it could appear Ok, but no. It's not ok. :)

    If you see Red and Magenta letters a bit fuzzy, then your card is compressing RGB: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/nuker43/inputlag/TintBlueRGB.png?t=1287963155

    More info here: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/385508/geforce-drivers/hdmi-how-to-disable-/
    and here: http://cdn.avsforum.com/b/be/bee169aa_vbattach233841.png
    and here: http://cdn.avsforum.com/b/be/be355246_vbattach233862.png
     
  3. PhazeDelta1

    PhazeDelta1 Ancient Guru

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    Do we still need to make the adjustment to full RGB in NVCP before using the tool?
     
  4. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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    There is no adjustment for full RGB in NVCP (only in video section, and it only affect video played through DXVA). And it's what everybody is asking NVIDIA to add.
     

  5. jwb1

    jwb1 Master Guru

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    Use this tool to set your level of RGB (Limited or Full). Restart for changes to appear.
     
  6. kens30

    kens30 Maha Guru

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    Wow! Thanks a lot for this, i didn't know anything about Nvidia drivers limiting the RGB range on HDMI tv's.I never had a pc monitor(excluding the old crt's) or an ATI card i always used my Samsung 32inch hdtv as one and i always adjusted the black level to low and used the Dynamic option to enhance the colors.I highly recommend this to all HDTV users as this tool easily allows you to revert back to normal.
     
  7. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    I said that I have full RGB, and dont have the issues you highlighted.
    You didnt check out the calibration website I linked to otherwise you wouldnt have made this post, its easy to get your display set up right.

    My only issue was brightness was a little too low and contrast a little too high.
     
  8. maco07

    maco07 Active Member

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    I already know the link you posted, I used to used it as default basic-calibration. For more accurate calibration you need to use AVIA or DVE, or something else.

    Have you checked HDMI Black Level is not set to LOW?

    Using Lagom is not a valid way to verify if RGB is or not full. In both cases, if you use HDMI Black Level Low, Lagom patterns will look ok.

    The real problem with compression is the compression and decompression of signal:

    Original image Full RGB ---> compressed by NVIDA not full RGB ---> expanded by HDMI Black Level: Low.

    This can be verified only with the patterns I posted.

    "My only issue was brightness was a little too low and contrast a little too high." --> It's looks like you have set your video card in not-full RGB, and in NVCP/Video in 0-255.
     
  9. Mufflore

    Mufflore Ancient Guru

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    You must have quoted the wrong person, I havent asked for help, because I dont need any.
     
  10. alco

    alco Master Guru

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    i run the tool as admin rebooted but dont see a difference (screen is 52"sony bravia ex700)
    is there a way to check its applied ?
     

  11. jwb1

    jwb1 Master Guru

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    You may have already been running Full RGB. Sometimes the driver auto detects the correct RGB setting for the display device.
     
  12. beezee

    beezee Active Member

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    Worked like a charm... Noticed right away whites are whiter, blackes, blacker and colors more pronounced.

    Thanks for this jwb1...
     
  13. jho9001

    jho9001 Member

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    Guys does this work for DVI too or are my eyeballs playing tricks on me? Just run the tools and, even if I have a DVI connection, it seems to me that blacks are now more deep...
     
  14. HonoredShadow

    HonoredShadow Ancient Guru

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    Your blacks might be too deep now as this is mentioning HDMI. I am still waiting off others if this only affects HDMI or DisplayPort/VGA and DVI also. I doubt it though.
     
  15. snorge

    snorge Member Guru

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    Is this recommended to try on an led/lcd pc monitor using hdmi? Most of you seem to be dealing with tvs.
     

  16. jwb1

    jwb1 Master Guru

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    This tool only works for HDMI, as the bug is related to HDMI and incorrect RGB set by the driver.

    How the nVidia driver works is it sets by default via what it detects the connection signal to be and sets the relevant RGB value based on that auto detect, the problem is on HDMI it isn't working all the time.

    The better way of doing this is: 1) Fix the auto detect bug and 2) Allow for an option for both RGB values.

    Only any display device that uses HDMI.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012
  17. alco

    alco Master Guru

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    i found some other info regarding this

    QUOTE_-

    I think people are confused as to what FULL and LIMITED RGB are for - they are NOT to do with Deep Colour and xycc colour.

    They are to do with support for legacy RGB DVI displays which support only 0-255 RGB levels and not the broadcast/studio standard of 16-235 RGB levels which almost all HDMI displays should support, and is the levels standard used for DVDs and BluRays.

    Many displays will cope with either setting and deliver near identical results - though will need re-calibration depending on which one you chose. If you do not recalibrate, then FULL will appear to have deeper, crushed blacks and thus more saturated colours, and brighter whites. However with correct calibration on a studio level capable display there should be no difference. Additionally Limited levels will allow blacker-than-black and whiter-than-white to be passed through, whereas Full levels can't allow this as anything below 16 or above 235 in studio levels terms is mapped to 0 or 255 in Full (aka PC level terms)

    You have a modern HDMI set - you shouldn't need to use Full you should be using Limited.

    Full is only required on older sets with PC level RGB DVI inputs - all HDMI sets should support studio/broadcast level RGB inputs as standard - and thus are designed to accept Limited inputs.

    In FULL mode the source - which is 16-235 - is remapped to 0-255 - so blacks which are encoded on the BluRay source at level 16, are not output at 16 and instead reduced to 0. Whites which are encoded on the BluRay source at level 235 are scaled to hit 255. Anything below 16 or above 235 (so called Blacker than Black and Whiter than White information) is clipped in FULL mode - it is NOT passed.

    The key thing to understand is that broadcast TV, DVDs, HD-DVDs and BluRay are mastered with black at 16 and White at 235 (whether RGB or YCrCb representation are used - and Cr Cb are 16-240 centred around 127) These are known as studio or broadcast levels - and have a narrower black-to-white range to allow for below-black and above-white excursions to be carried without clipping - which is an important issue when you are mixing analogue and video sources (Transitions can cause spikes in analogue circuitry that will go past black and white levels, if these are clipped, they will cause ringing - i.e. artificial black/white edge distortion - when converted back to analogue.)

    The fact that FULL and LIMITED are not simply different ways of displaying a signal with the same range - as you suggest - is clearly visible when you flip between modes - as in FULL mode the black level drops and white level increases. This is NOT what would happen if the switch was simply between passing <16 and >235 or not and keeping black at 16 and white at 235 - you would get no black or white level shift. But you do.

    Super White is the option that allows whiter-than-white to be passed - not FULL.

    FULL is simply an option Sony added to remap 16-235 studio levels to the older DVI RGB standard (previously uncatered for in PS3) using PC levels of 0-255. It is NOT to do with passing blacker than black or whiter than white - as it clips <16 and >235 levels in the remap process. This is important for projectors and owners of older HDTVs with DVI inputs added for use with PCs rather than video sources



    EDIT: More info regarding to this.

    According to Section 6.6 of the HDMI 1.3 Specification document:

    Black and white levels for video components shall be either “Full Range” or “Limited Range.” YCbCr components shall always be Limited Range while RGB components may be either Full Range or Limited Range. While using RGB, Limited Range shall be used for all video formats defined in CEA-861-D, with the exception of VGA (640x480) format, which requires Full Range.


    i'm confused lol
     
  18. MrBonk

    MrBonk Ancient Guru

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    That makes two of us.
     
  19. snorge

    snorge Member Guru

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    well I enabled it and the colors definitely changed but I think they look over-saturated now. Will test a game later but think I'm going back to whatever "auto detect" the driver does.
     
  20. jwb1

    jwb1 Master Guru

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    You will probably have to re-calibrate some of your monitor settings.
     

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