Ti200 Horrible IQ?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Elanzer, Apr 29, 2004.

  1. Elanzer

    Elanzer Ancient Guru

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    Well I replaced my FX5200 with a 64mb Ti200, overclocked the Ti200 to it's max (231/520 so far).

    It's been anything but impressive, basically I'm missing a few things the FX had, ok, but games really aren't that much better at all performance wise even though this thing clocks from 175/400 to 231/520, where as my FX5200 can only go 250/400 -> 280/460 properly.

    The biggest complain I have is with the horrible IQ I get, with 60.72 or 56.72 I get bad IQ in pretty much everything, the colors and everything seem less accurate in some games, and in other games it's just retarded. I've also tried det 43.51 but it's just slower overall, sure my 3dmark nature score jumps 10fps, but everything else still looks pretty crappy compared to my FX5200 (even old games, like Quake 1) and I can't figure out why.

    Here's an example, it almost looks like the stuff is running 16bit.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Not to mention when moving the fog seems to appear and wrap around things as I move around, it's almost like the fog is bilinear filtering, but it's not...

    This bad IQ trend happens when the card is overclocked, and not overclocked, and it's cooled quite sufficiently..
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2004
  2. Chouji

    Chouji Ancient Guru

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    was it a 64bit or 128bit 5200?

    we did a thing about this before.. but kinda curious. and what drivers are you using? i notice 5x.xx are a little better quality, but 4x.xx run better "and im a performance buff so for me i prefer performance over quality"
     
  3. Wmc90

    Wmc90 Master Guru

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    wait u replaced your fx5200 for a ti4200.. uhh WTF?
     
  4. Elanzer

    Elanzer Ancient Guru

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    If you mean Ti200, yes, a Ti200 is faster than a FX5200, a Ti4200 is MUCH faster than a FX5200. I still have both cards.

    It's a 128bit FX5200, it has more or less the same performance as it (so far), but painkiller is noticably smoother and I can actually juggle every enemy 5-6x in a row because it's so much smoother, easily 50-60fps in 800x600 highest details, which I guess is pretty good for a ti200, my fx5200 only got about 40fps. The problem is that any driver makes it look like trash though. I don't even use PS 2.0 on the FX5200 or play any game that uses PS 2.0 and even some games that obviously don't really use new technology look worse, ie: Quakeworld... FX5200 still makes very noticably better looking textures.

    I've tried dets 60.72, 56.72, 53.03, 45.23, 44.03, 43.51. In those SS I believe I'm using 56.72. Every driver produces the same ugly results. The funny thing is this card has over double the fillrate my FX5200 has, but seemingly matches or has 10% more performance over the FX5200 overclocked even... probobly my cpu/fsb bottleneck, but the real annoying thing is I don't even remember my geforce 2 mx having textures this ugly.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2004

  5. hohum

    hohum Member

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    I can tell you why this is (I believe). I up until recently was using a 256mb fx5600, but decided to sell it because performance was hardly any better than my gf3 - so I switched back. Anyway I noticed, as you have, that image quality in some of the latest games (Painkiller and FarCry demos) is quite poor in comparison. Specifically, there are weird colours on textures (such as blobs of light green or purple). Older games look exactly the same as on my fx5600.

    Anyway i'm assuming this is because of the large texture requirements for the latest games. Any graphics card you can buy now generally comes with at least 128mb, and the 64mb on gf3s really isn't enough now. So it appears that to solve this problem with a lack of texture memory on older cards, they (game developers/Nvidia?) have forced a high level of texture compression if it finds the card is unable to store game textures in their uncompressed format.

    Hence the rather low image quality... however, that is just what I believe is going on. I can get the same effect (those green and purple 'blobs'/poor colour) in older games by setting the performance slider to high performance, which applies heavy texture compression. So I don't think there's anything you can do about it... however, just my thoughts :)
     
  6. Elanzer

    Elanzer Ancient Guru

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    Well I still got them on my FX5200, but not anything near this dramatic. But even a game as old as Quakeworld (well, not really old, I use a modernized client) looks alot different, the grass textures, instead of looking green have slight purple globs in them that filter away as I get closer to them, which just looks retarded, in painkiller those color bands on the walls disappear as I hover the light over them.

    But you are probobly right, I disabled texture compression in fuhquake and it looks about the same as my FX5200 (although still worse, there was much less color blobs), even though my FX5200 used texture compression in it fine and got the performance increase without a quality hit, maybe GF3 cards have a crappier compression handling method or something?... ohwell. Speed over quality.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2004
  7. hohum

    hohum Member

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    Yes, the fx series have a lossless colour compression system implemented, so image quality is generally much better when compression is used. If it really bugs you though you can always download rivatuner from this very website, which has options for forcing texture compression off in directx apps (I forget if you can for opengl). However doing this will probably result in a big performance hit in newer titles... namely low fps and/or hitching. Nothing wrong with trying though. :)
     
  8. Elanzer

    Elanzer Ancient Guru

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    The FX5200/FX5500 does -not- have that color compression though, only FX5600 and up do, the only thing FX5200 has is LMA2 and ps/vs 2.0. That didn't help either, I'm guessing just the gf3 just has worse IQ itself.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2004
  9. boot

    boot Guest

    What brand is your Ti4200? My 64MB Abit Siluro Ti4200 originally clocked at 250/500 and I overclocked it to 300/600 all these while.
     
  10. hohum

    hohum Member

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    Ah, I don't know FX5200 specs that well to be honest - I knew they were missing intellisample, but didn't know much beyond that. Guess you'll just have to bite the bullet then.
     

  11. Elanzer

    Elanzer Ancient Guru

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    Well I noticed it's only in that one level in painkiller, the other ones render just like the FX5200, Other games have different "looks" like they're darker, but I guess they aren't exactly bad looks, I'm just used to the way the fx5200 rendered.
     
  12. SL2

    SL2 Ancient Guru

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    That IQ problem is known as "Rainbow Textures" over at the DreamCatcher forums. If you have a TFT monitor you notice it straight away.
    It occurs with certain Geforce cards [GF3, GF4 & GF FX] and driver combinations.

    Switching to certain driver versions for some people fix this issue. It can occur on Pre 5x.xx drivers as well. Alot of people believe it's something to do with Painkiller because it doesn't happen with other games other than Q3A [Which is another issue to do with texture compression].

    My Ti4200 64MB had it untill I switched to 53.04. My current 5950U 256MB has it through every 5x.xx revision, but is less noticable with 60.72.
     
  13. SL2

    SL2 Ancient Guru

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    Here's a few prime examples of Rainbow Textures and general IQ crappiness from my system:

    Screenshot 1
    Screenshot 2
    Screenshot 3
    Screenshot 4
    Screenshot 5

    Settings:
    AA: 4xS / AF: x8
    Resolution: 1024*768 / Colour: 32bit
    Game settings: Everything 'on' and at highest settings [Trillinear enabled].

    These settings are by no means playable when you view a light source [Even the cave on the left causes the FPS to take a nose dive]. It's fine on Boss levels though.
     
  14. hohum

    hohum Member

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    Yeah, it's really bizarre - my TNT2 never had it, my GF2 TI never had it, yet I noticed that effect in some games straight away when I got my gf3. Very odd indeed.
     

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