ThreadRipper + Diffrent RAM?

Discussion in 'Processors and motherboards AMD' started by MegaFalloutFan, Dec 9, 2019.

  1. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    130
    GPU:
    RTX 2080Ti 11Gb
    Question.
    x4 16GB sticks + x4 8GB stick, all from same brand and same spec, same series.
    Will it hurt my quad channel setup or not?
    In theory it shouldn't but my mobo manual had this quote:

    P.S. RAM will be installed, first 64GB as per motherboard spec for quad channel and then in the left over slots will be loaded the 32gb kit
     
  2. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    8,057
    Likes Received:
    2,681
    GPU:
    GTX 1080ti
    that snippet is related to intel flex memory, not a feature of threadripper / ryzen memory controllers.

    i don't know how it will go, but yes, each channel should have 16GB in the first slot of each channel, and the 8GB in the second slot of each channel.
     
    386SX likes this.
  3. 386SX

    386SX Master Guru

    Messages:
    976
    Likes Received:
    971
    GPU:
    AMD Vega64 RedDevil
    Worst case: 8x8 GB RAM as quad, remains stay unused.
    Best case: 4x16 at quad and 4x8 as quad.

    And anything between. ;)

    Just try, you won't break anything.
     
  4. bobblunderton

    bobblunderton Master Guru

    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    162
    GPU:
    EVGA 2070 Super 8gb
    Put a 16gb stick and an 8gb stick on each of the four channels. If you are unsure which slot, consult your motherboard manual. It will tell you if you're running quad channel or not in BIOS and in programs that check hardware information. Only single channel, dual channel or quad channel is allowed using all those sticks. If you get them wrong you will default to single or dual channel depending on how you goofed, but you CAN set it up as quad channel if you use the right slots. It will read all the ram by default, it will not suddenly give you 8 channel with 64gb over 8 sticks when you plug 96gb of RAM in to the system.

    Please keep in mind when mixing single and dual rank memory, (which is very possible with 8gb and 16gb sticks mixed together as many 16gb and almost all 32gb sticks are dual-rank) that you may have to loosen timings or speed just a bit especially when using more than one stick per channel. Get your 64gb RAM in first, get that in quad channel, then put the rest of it in AFTER you are sure it's stable and a happy camper. But yes, yes you can use all that RAM with a quad channel setup. If and when 8-channel thread-rippers come out, you will have to get another 4x16gb set to match the 1st 4x16gb set to use 8-channel if the board allows it with a properly capable CPU.
     

  5. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    130
    GPU:
    RTX 2080Ti 11Gb
    Hi,
    Its from ROG Zenith II manual, its one of the first pages about RAM installation [manual available online]
     
  6. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    130
    GPU:
    RTX 2080Ti 11Gb
    No, but i need to buy the second kit, I dont like how it looks with 4 stick and empty slots

    So by adding extra RAM i can lose speed? I kinda want my 3600Mhz and use ram calculator to tighten them up.
    My problem is esthetic, 4 sticks G.Skill NEO in 8 slots, glass door and all that.
    I wish they sold dummy DIMMS like Gigabyte
     
  7. 386SX

    386SX Master Guru

    Messages:
    976
    Likes Received:
    971
    GPU:
    AMD Vega64 RedDevil
    I say it again: Please don't do it. :)
     
  8. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    130
    GPU:
    RTX 2080Ti 11Gb
    Dont do what?
     
  9. 386SX

    386SX Master Guru

    Messages:
    976
    Likes Received:
    971
    GPU:
    AMD Vega64 RedDevil
    Putting 4 sticks in it. AFAIK it throttles the maximum speed possible.
     
  10. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    130
    GPU:
    RTX 2080Ti 11Gb
    So just the original Kit that I have the 64GB?
     

  11. Kool64

    Kool64 Master Guru

    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    319
    GPU:
    Gigabyte RTX2070S
    full banks was bad for 1x and even ocassionally 2x series chips but it's not really a problem with 3x series. I would assume it's the same with the Threadripper 3x though I guess 8 full banks might be a bit of a strain on the IMC compared to the 4x of Ryzen.
     
    386SX likes this.
  12. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    130
    GPU:
    RTX 2080Ti 11Gb
    Oh its you, whats up, Imagine that this Intel shill just got 3960x :)
    Now I need to sort my Water block issue, im an idiot and got Intel block plus AMD AM4 upgrade kit [I ASSumed im the smartest, and covered myself fully, i could go Intel mainstream or Intel HEDT or Ryzen AM4, never considered TR], a full year ago in case ill get one or the otehr but now i have 3 parts that i cant use and need to sell it brand and need to buy a TR3 block.
    My RAM issue is that I have 64Gb Kit NEO RAM [at least this one came out great, runs fine on my z370 9900K and shows in QVL for all TRX4 boards] the RAM comes in 4 sticks, i want to fill the empty spaces, i dont need more RAM but i want it to look estetical, so if I can use 4 stick of 4Gb or 4 stick of 8Gb of ram from same exact series with same spec i rather save money, BUT I dont want it to hurt my quad channel and I want to keep the optimal speed, for the infinity fabric.
    i want to push the TR3 as much as possible using "legal" means, i mean not clock overclocking but doing all the tricks around it, clocking infinity fabric to maximum possible, tightening ram, using PBO, cooling the CPU as best as can, Disabling SMT to get faster boost clocks, lower temps and better gaming performance [In any case, enabling SMT is just One restart away]
     
  13. Kool64

    Kool64 Master Guru

    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    319
    GPU:
    Gigabyte RTX2070S
    Are those sticks even quad rated? I would expect you'd want a quad channel kit before you even start worrying about populating all of the banks.

    Edit also another interesting thing that no manual is mentioning is the mixing of ram sizes. Like in your case of sticking your 4 stick kit alongside another 4 stick kit of a different density. Right now I've got 2x 3600 RGB NEOs(turned out to by crappy MFR Hynix) I should be able to to theoretically stick my old (even crappier AFR hynix) in my other two slots and get it running at 3200 but would not be able to match the factory 3600 due to my older sticks being unable to hit the rated speed. Or you might want to pick up another NEO kit jut to be safe since you're already spending a ton of money and with Ryzen being questionable with ram it's better safe then sorry.

    Edit:

    I just tried to add one of my 2x8gb 3200 sets into my 3700X system with the existing 2x16(dual rank) sticks. It will not boot. It will however boot just fine with 4x 3200(I have 2 of those kits). This is at stock freshly cleared BIOS even. I think it's got to do with the 2x16 being dual rank and the 2x8 being single rank. your other kit probably won't play nice with your 4x16 IMO.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019
  14. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    130
    GPU:
    RTX 2080Ti 11Gb
    Well its quad ram sticks kit so its good for quad channel, on GSKILL QVL list its compatible at rated speed with all current TXR4 motherboard.
    I want to buy another 4 sticks of NEO, just smaller, 8GB with same spec as my 16GB sticks, but as people mentioned here i might not be able to push it to 3600.
    I think ill wait until i finish the build, adding RAM is easy, ill complete my build, see how everything goes, maybe inside the case it wont look THAT bad, I do have Black plastic DIMM covers from my ASUS x99 Sabertooth, that board had a full kit of anti dust plugs for everything, DIMMs, PCIe slots, USB, audio, all external slots etc and I have 2 kits
    So with these pluged in,the empty dimm slots wont be visible and it will look better.

    Is tehre any TR3 optimization guides? How to tune everything up? The Infinity fabcric, the PBO, etc?
    BTW, is there a point doing manual non PBO overclocking for it? Is it possible to overclock per core like on Intel? So better cores can be pushed to 4.5 maybe 4.6Ghz?
    Is tehre a way in windows to see the CCXes in Task Manger, Say if I want to use Process Lasso and lock games to use the best fastest CCX and for the game to not be spread across different CCXes just one for best speed
    This is going to be interesting, im a noob in TR, my last Real Fun AMD was 1090T so finding all these new options and bios settings and optimizations and building water loop should be fan long project

    In theory, if i want i can buy small mobo, and keep my 9900K since my case supports dual motherboard installation, but i rather sell it and I dont want to deal with the hassle of 2 systems
     
  15. Kool64

    Kool64 Master Guru

    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    319
    GPU:
    Gigabyte RTX2070S
    Ryzen Master groups the cores per CCX and it will even tell you what cores are your great ones(star) and what are your good ones with dots. The gold star is your absolute best core. Looking at the QVL The ROG Z2E It does not support 8x16 Gskill 3600 but it does support 8x16 3600 of a specific Corsair model. CMT128GX4M8X3600C18(Ver4.31)(XMP) 8x 16GB. I'm not a huge guru of PBO but it will raise your all core clocks during load and probably will give you a boost to single core speeds given the higher quality of the TRX40 platform.


    3200 looks to be the "sweet" spot for filling 8 banks as far as supported memory goes. Of course you'll be able to try to OC it past the 3200 "referance" One thing I will also note is if you got a higher timed(C18 or higher) the chances of going past the manufacturer supported limit will be considerably lower.


    Also I found this as "fine print"

    • Please ensure all memory modules are from a single validated kit. Do not combine DIMMs from multiple kits—even if they are the same make and model.


    IMO if I were you if you can still return the 4x NEO kit you might want to go for something like this"

    https://www.newegg.com/g-skill-64gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820232327?Description=64gb quad channel&cm_re=64gb_quad_channel-_-20-232-327-_-Product


    Interestingly not even this Kit is 8x8 rated for G.Skill.


    Also ASRocks Taichi TRX40 seems to have a bit better 3600 QVL

    http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/TRX40 Taichi/index.asp#Memory
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2019

  16. MegaFalloutFan

    MegaFalloutFan Master Guru

    Messages:
    801
    Likes Received:
    130
    GPU:
    RTX 2080Ti 11Gb

    Great thanks for the info.
    does ryzen master has number for each core like task manager? And these numbers belong to same cores? If Ryzen master shows that for example core 15 is the best that means i can select 15 from Task Manager/Process lasso?

    I never trust motherboard QVL, had lots of issues in the past, i go by the RAM QVL and GSKILL guarantees that if your RAM kit QVL has a motherboard on the list, that its going to work and at full speed
    here: https://www.gskill.com/qvl/165/326/1562840280/F4-3600C16Q-64GTZNC-Qvl

    The 4x8Gb Kit also has QVL and its compatible too, but no one knows how the motherboard going to act when 2 kits mixed
     
  17. Kool64

    Kool64 Master Guru

    Messages:
    847
    Likes Received:
    319
    GPU:
    Gigabyte RTX2070S
    Yeah there’s tons of 4x8 support but keep in mind that you will probably have 8x8 or 8x16 work just fine if’s just a little bit of an unknown. As far as RM goes I have no idea what you’ll see with so man cores but I know you’ll at least see CCX 1-whatever each with its 4 cores then each CCD with its cores.
     
  18. Astyanax

    Astyanax Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    8,057
    Likes Received:
    2,681
    GPU:
    GTX 1080ti
    Asus are guilty of copy and pasting their manuals, the snippet is a reference to Intel Flex memory.
     
  19. bobblunderton

    bobblunderton Master Guru

    Messages:
    344
    Likes Received:
    162
    GPU:
    EVGA 2070 Super 8gb
    Well it depends on which board you buy, and just how good the memory controllers are on the Threadripper CPU's. Dual-rank dimms are harder to push than Single Rank (as I spoke above about single/dual rank), because dual rank reads TWO ranks of chips at one go (and hence it's an itty-bit faster), where-as single-rank reads only one rank of chips in one go (one READ operation).
    Look up in the manual of the board you're going to get how you must place the single and dual rank sticks. Sometimes you must put the singles after the duals (the dual ranks being the 16gb sticks, singles 8gb). Sometimes using dual-rank dimms will cause you to need a lower memory speed or looser timings, HOWEVER, Threadripper is top-dog chip. So you'll have the best IMC available. Test with one bank of 4x sticks filled, test out for maximum speed and stability, then save your settings, revert to the XMP of the memory, and add in another 4x kit and see if it's good to go.
    This is all stuff covered in the motherboard manual. Some motherboards might run the RAM a little faster than others, but most of the difference will come down to the CPU itself and the integrated memory controller (the IMC). Threadripper is again top-dog and most people I know with 4 sticks don't even need to go under 3000mhz even on a cheapo x570 board, with main-stream AM4, so you should be just fine.
    I'd say buy the parts (before they go out of stock!) and just have a blast buddy. If your memory is on the QVL, you're golden to get the rated speed. If you have to step timings back at all on a number or two for RAM timing it might make at most a 1% difference... being that it's already quad channel and runs at a good speed. Dual channel is a little more sensitive to RAM speed gains because of being roughly only half the bandwidth of quad channel.
    Once your system is running Windows or desired OS of choice, make sure it's stable by running some benchmarks and playing some games, and browsing the net for a night or two (mostly due to drivers sometimes ruining the show). Then backup your existing UEFI BIOS settings by saving a profile to the BIOS memory or by saving the profile to a USB stick. Then break out the Ryzen RAM calculator thingie, and go to town with it and see just how fast you can go. Be forewarned that on desktops, exceeding 3733mhz of RAM cause infinity fabric speed to drop, to where you need to get to at-least 4200mhz or so to out-weigh the latency increase on infinity fabric with pure bandwidth Mhz. So please keep that in mind as it might be much the same on Threadripper (they're all the same at heart, it's more the IO die being different on the CPU and how good of a bin those core chips are inside)... so I wouldn't worry too hard about mhz speed over 3600, I would just attempt to tighten timings.
    So enjoy!
     

Share This Page