The US economy in death spiral.

Discussion in 'The Guru's Pub' started by death_samurai, Jun 20, 2010.

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  1. lmimmfn

    lmimmfn Ancient Guru

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    Irelands been fecked for the past 2 years, reckon it will take 20 years at least for a recovery, higher taxes and bank bailouts are going to cripple everyone for that period
     
  2. KCjoker

    KCjoker Ancient Guru

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    Well not just the USA obviously...I think it's going to get much worse too. My thoughts are that we need to vote out all incumbents...regardless whether they are repubs or Dems. You've got people that have been in office decades and they know exactly how to work the system/find the loopholes.
     
  3. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    The end may be inevitable, but it doesn't mean that Asia and the Middle east will just automatically rise and replace the world powers. When the western world's economy tanks, the entire world's economy tanks. After all, what is China's manufacturing prowess good for when nobody can afford to buy any of it? If what you're saying is true, the collapse of the economy will be the true end of the current society.

    However, I'm skeptical that it will ever collapse. A new system will most likely just be implemented. The real problem is the projection of this illusion that everyone can have money and nice things. This simply isn't the case. Resources are and have always been limited.
     
  4. Indeo

    Indeo Ancient Guru

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    It will never "collapse". It is going to shift through one form of stagnation to another for next, say, 20 years with all the following woes, stresses, silly countermeasures and speculations until something handy comes up (e.g. super cheap artificial power source\ new revolution somewhere in Russia). When it happens, government will find a way to "stabilize" things while all the attention\plans will be forced towards this new thing (or threat)...
    Just because it's all in the people's heads. This system was born crippled and stayed ****ed up for ages, it's just us who never gave it a proper attention. Average human thought that everything's cool and acted like it is, just as the system needs him to keep breathing. Now it just became too obvious that ****'s ****ed up, and bam! No more self deception, everyone goes mental and desperate, no trust in those sweet everyday thingies that were keeping you happy. You don't trust your employer, your employer doesn't trust his shareholders, his shareholders don't trust in their money... etc. Someone in this failchain loses it, and it all goes to hell.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010

  5. Liranan

    Liranan Ancient Guru

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    Corporate profit means a healthy economy? Glad to know there's nothing to worry about the US debt then, despite the fact that the country can never pay it back. It's funny, because even a 500 hour work week won't magically make those trillions disappear. But hey, you're right, it's better to have 25% of the worlds economy (lolexaggeration) and 50% of its military spending, I'm sure the corporations are more than happy at this money being thrown away for lulz.

    The country's self destructed. I have seen documentaries about 5 billion Pound high-tech hospitals, which were torn down because they didn't have 'enough' patients and were not economically viable. Less than five years later they rebuilt the same hospital, costing more, on the same damned site. Great success for those who built it and demolished it, as they were all either related, donors or friends of some politicians. Again, who cares about the country, as long as they line their pockets.

    Resources are limited, not everyone can have nice things, indeed. The West have maintained their dominance through military might, but that's no longer enough, beause you need money to support it. The UK went begging to Saudi Arabia, the US are beholden to China, and can't attack Iran, because the Chinese will retaliate. They might not use arms but they'll use something far worse: money.

    Iran, a tiny country, with only 70 million has the worlds fifth economy. While this little country ascends, the power of the USA in the Middle East declines. I'm just stating the obvious to make my point clear. This is just an example of the changing world.

    The omnipotent power of the West is over, they no longer have the power to enforce their will. Anyone who has studied any of the great empires will see it's over. This is why historians, economists and other intellectuals have been calling for reform, without it the West will decline so badly it will take a very long time for it to crawl out of the hole it's digging for itself. The writings are all over the news, you only need to read real news to see that the US and its puppet Europe can no longer dictate anything to Russia or China any longer.

    All empires fall, the only question is how and how long it will take for it to get back on its knees.
     
  6. hawkeyefan

    hawkeyefan Maha Guru

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    LOL

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138164

    Dear Iran,

    Oh hai!

    Signed,

    [​IMG]
     
  7. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    The only thing is that you act like the U.S. desperately went to China, begging for money. That's not how it worked at all. The U.S. offered the sell debt, with interest, to China for future repayment. It was purely designed to help ease the stock market decline. Everyone wins in this circumstance, because the dollar will make its comeback in the future and the Chinese will get their interest out of it. It would make zero sense for China to threaten the U.S. with threats of forcing them to pay. They wouldn't gain anything by doing so, and in fact would just hurt themselves. China doesn't have the U.S. by the balls at all, it's always been a mutual relationship. You can't have one without the other, or both suffer.

    Also, the really important thing to remember is that China "owns" a fraction of the total debt. Almost all of it is owed to our own people due to social programs like welfare, medicaid, social security, etc. These programs are murdering the country's budget far more than China could ever hope to. If anything is going to go, it will be those first.
     
  8. hawkeyefan

    hawkeyefan Maha Guru

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    Once China is ultimately forced to float their currency like everyone else, they're effed.

    Wait, by what measure does Iran have the world's fifth largest economy? All I've seen put it somewhere in the vicinity of thirtieth by GDP and ~16 by PPP.

    If California broke away from the States, it would have the world's fifth largest economy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2010
  9. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    Pretty much. Hell, if every Western company based there decided to walk over to India for example, China would experience a complete collapse of their economy and most likely their government as well.
     
  10. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

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    Huh? Really? lol. Ye never been west further than Algonquin National Park in Ontario. That's the furthest west I've been in Canada. Furthest east in Canada is Nova Scotia.

    Any source about this "Walmart bank"?

    deltatux
     

  11. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    Maybe he's talking about their money center? It's not really their own bank. They do cash checks for you and such, but the debit card they issue is actually a Visa with Walmart branding.
     
  12. deltatux

    deltatux Ancient Guru

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    Never heard such services from Walmart before. I just went to Walmart today and didn't see anything like that lol. Probably it's a US/Western Canadian thing.

    deltatux
     
  13. IcE

    IcE Don Snow Staff Member

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    Probably is just a U.S. thing then.
     
  14. crushilista

    crushilista Ancient Guru

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    I thought it was just a derogitive term meaning that it collects so much money, it's almost like a bank.
     
  15. RandyB

    RandyB Banned

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    In my years working with computers, I've found that doing an internet search isn't all that difficult. LOL!
    http://www.canada.com/business/fp/story.html?id=3156480

    From Wikipedia:
    "Wal-Mart Stores, Inc. (branded as Walmart) (NYSE: WMT) is an American public corporation that runs a chain of large discount department stores. In 2010 it was the world's largest public corporation by revenue, according to the Forbes Global 2000 for that year.[6] The company was founded by Sam Walton in 1962, incorporated on October 31, 1969, and publicly traded on the New York Stock Exchange in 1972. Wal-Mart is the largest majority private employer[7] and the largest grocery retailer in the United States. In 2009, it generated 51% of its US$258 billion sales in the U.S. from grocery business.[8] It also owns and operates the Sam's Club retail warehouses in North America.
    Walmart operates in Mexico as Walmex, in the United Kingdom as Asda ("Asda Wal-Mart" in some branches), in Japan as Seiyu, and in India as Best Price. It has wholly-owned operations in Argentina, Brazil, Canada, and Puerto Rico. Wal-Mart's investments outside North America have had mixed results: its operations in the United Kingdom, South America and China are highly successful, while it was forced to pull out of Germany and South Korea when ventures there were unsuccessful."
    Corporations are the real power in the world - not governments. The global banks control everything...another easy search.
     

  16. proFits

    proFits Ancient Guru

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    Delta, interested in visiting the rockies ? XD

    I'm planning a road trip soon enough
     
  17. dark_surge

    dark_surge Master Guru

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    I actually think there's no problem and it's way overblown. Personally, it just seems like people are spending less money, but everybody is making the same or more than they were 5-6 years ago.

    I think people are just tired of buying lots of crap and are *maybe* getting better at saving money. :)
     
  18. Dustpuppy

    Dustpuppy Ancient Guru

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    ^ well there's a small problem, our manufacturing sector is near dead. The financial sector was keeping us afloat with housing/finance accounting for 30% of GDP 2002-2006 if I remember rightly.

    I am strongly considering a move to Texas. The economy where I am is rather stagnate. I really wish I didn't need to go as I like the forests here in Arkansas, and the last thing in the world I want is to move somewhere even hotter (high is 101 today, 102 tomorrow). However, texas has 40x as many jobs overall and 2x as many jobs per-capita in the area's I've looked at, plus no state income tax.
     
  19. dark_surge

    dark_surge Master Guru

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    I would think that is because people are becoming less imaginative than before caused by a fear of trying new things, right? People only buy the same old for so long it seems. I just think that if there were more chances taken there would be more incentive for people to buy new stuff. It's kind of sad to see imagination being shunned in this day and age. :) The automotive industry could really use it, although they have been getting better. This years Mustang looks way better than last years (or maybe it was 2 years ago...I'm not sure), for example.

    Maybe I just don't get it, but I have never met anybody who has been affected by the economy. Everybody I know is making the same or more than before, as I said, the only difference is that they are spending less. Yet they all act like they're in a depression. I truly believe that if it wasn't for the media always blowing things out of proportion that a few car companies and banks would go out of business...and everybody else would go on with their lives as usual.

    I mean, it's just the business section's version of natural selection. It's just the government and media that were making a big deal of it, all while they were making the same amount of money, if not more in the media's case. I know for a fact that the senators didn't take a payroll decrease. :) In fact, it's a known fact that they have toilet paper rolls made out of $100 bills in their bathrooms.

    Again, just my analysis and opinion. :)

    My parents used to live in New Mexico for a few years while my dad was teaching and they said they loved it there, except for the temperature. :)
     
  20. Black_ice_Spain

    Black_ice_Spain Ancient Guru

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    im living as well, or even better than before =). Crisis makes people not to raise prices a lot :p!.
     
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