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The truth about PRE-RENDERING 0?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Tastic, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. marcosamerio

    marcosamerio Master Guru

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    Hi kilyan, i dont thing u dont have no input lag, maybe for u is no noticeable

    But at this value that u use in my opinion on test i do in my machine in games

    like TF2, BFBC2, PD, KF the input lag get worse and worse when i was

    trying higher values, this is why im stick all the way for "0" for mftra.

    Bye
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  2. SLI-756

    SLI-756 Banned

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    [​IMG]

    Flying round Arkham City taking out snipers(1080 v synced @60fps), pre-render @ '1', detail extreme, physx high, DOF & Bloom disabled.
    In the benchmark i now average around 56 FPS.
    Yip Yip YipEE!11!!
    lulz.
     
  3. SLI-756

    SLI-756 Banned

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    I've had to set max payne3 to the '2' preset, the pre-render '1' was too choppy, i believe i may have to do the same for sleeping dogs too so long as it doesn't make the combat too laggy, however i'll keep Arkham at the '1'.
    I imagine FPS games will greately benefit from the '1' preset too(for aiming & greater crosshair control) so long as gameplay isn't too much degraded.

    I gave sleeping dogs a go @ '2' : it made no difference, still occasional choppyness and increased input lag so i'll be glad to have it back at '1'.
    shame about the DOF can't be disabled in the game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  4. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    "OneFrameThreadLag" and pre-render limit both serve the same purpose; enhancing parallelism/efficiency and preventing stalls.

    Yes, we here agree on it, but apparently Nvidia doesn't.

    A CPU-bound system may be unlikely to pre-render 8 frames ahead, even if that is the setting chosen in the driver. Key word maximum pre-rendered frames

    I'm glad it helped. Thanks for posting your results!
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012

  5. connta

    connta Banned

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    btw, have we come to the final conclusion on triple buffering with vsync?

    namely when using vsync which does introduce some input lag, no doubt, will triple buffering help reduce that input lag, increase it or is it irrelevant to the input lag? also what happens when we introduce distinction between developer implemented triple buffering and forced triple buffering with D3DOverrider, is there any from the point of input lag?

    i must say i have never found a clear answer to these questions

    also how does setting max pre rendered frames to less than 3 correspond with triple buffering and vsync? does enabling triple buffering and vsync makes max pre rendered frames a moot setting?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
  6. SLI-756

    SLI-756 Banned

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    I always have triple buffering disabled (and i'll disable it in-game if option is present), i've always used v sync (now using adaptive), and with the '1' max pre-render setting i feel i've found the correct settings for my taste.
    In the end that's what it comes down to, you just gotta test the settings by toggling them on and off and see which is more comfortable.
    I've never liked the idea of triple buffering anyways, and yes i know exactly what it does, it worked best around 10 years ago.
     
  7. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    Vsync can cause games to become artificially GPU bound, which means the CPU renders further ahead and increases input lag. In my experience more input lag is caused by pre-rendering than vsync or triple buffering.
     
  8. SLI-756

    SLI-756 Banned

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    Hi, rewt, is the max pre-rendered frames setting in the ncp relating to the CPU or the GPU?
    Just to confirm, thanks.
     
  9. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    GPU:
    Max pre-rendered frames relates to CPU and double/triple buffering relates to GPU.
     
  10. SLI-756

    SLI-756 Banned

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    Many thanks, much appreciated, dude.
    That exlains the Arkham City cpu thrashing i seen before.
     

  11. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    Sure thing bud :)

    Triple buffering is not useful at FPS higher than refresh rate, nor without vsync, but at FPS lower than refresh rate it can cut milliseconds between frames in half.

    D3DOverrider, like its predecessor DXTweaker, injects code into application which modifies the back buffer count during swap chain creation. In games that already natively support that method of triple buffering (e.g. BackBufferCount = 2) then D3DOverrider will just behave passive anyway, and there will be no difference.

    In Direct3D pre-rendering can have some effect on buffering. For example I've seen where a pre-render limit of zero makes so-called "triple buffered" games perform as if they were only double buffered. It's usually detected as a huge FPS loss whenever vsync is enabled and FPS falls below refresh rate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2012
  12. kn00tcn

    kn00tcn Ancient Guru

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    & in my tests, manually capping to 60 or 59 reduces the input lag

    some engines do this already, others dont & have extreme lag, so... another variable in the quest to get rid of tearing & stay playable
     
  13. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    Yes, I mentioned limiting/capping FPS helps.

     
  14. kn00tcn

    kn00tcn Ancient Guru

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    i mean, i'm confirming
     
  15. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    If @60Hz vsync'd you cap to 60/59FPS then there may still be 2 or 3 pre-rendered frames.

    With a pre-render limit of 3 (which is typical), capping 2 or 3 frames below refresh rate is known to minimize input lag with vsync (and it's why for example tools like Nvidia Inspector already includes settings for it).
     

  16. [Arnold]

    [Arnold] Member

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    What exactly does "Use the 3D application setting" in the NVCP mean than for newer 3xx GeForce driver series in case the application has no such option? Will it be the old (pre 3xx) default of 3 pre-rendered frames? And what will it be if the application is set to use the driver's default, and the driver is set to use the application settings (e.g. BF3 with "RenderDevice.ForceRenderAheadLimit -1" and the NVCP with "Use the 3D application setting")?
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  17. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    I believe that's something else I answered before. If the application doesn't specify, then "Use the app setting" typically equates to 3 frames in D3D and 2 frames in OpenGL.
     
  18. [Arnold]

    [Arnold] Member

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    Sorry, I must have missed that. Thanks for clearing that up.
     
  19. sob7i

    sob7i New Member

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    NVIDIA You Made me very very verrry disappointed after making RFA = upper than 0
    this means you have stopped supporting old hardware of yours .....so me and many old customers who cought your games will turn to ATI immediatly unless you stop this greed game. i have a nvidia 8800 320mb and i had to install new driver to play need for speed most wanted 2... but this 197.23 cant stop lagging and stuttering in everygame. so what shall i do nvidia>??? uninstall reinstall daily to play my games?.... and this is how nvidia cares... for money .... so long nvidia i have a new gaming center and i will buy all ATI. just for that move of you. and even who don't know what makes them stutter will run to ATI... so long stupid.
     
  20. Shadowdane

    Shadowdane Maha Guru

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    yah it can't stop stuttering because your using a 8800 320mb, that is completely outdated at this point. Most modern games use over 320mb memory so you end up texture swapping. Which causes stuttering and hitching. This card came out in 2006, I wouldn't expect it to run anything recent at good framerates.
     

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