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The truth about PRE-RENDERING 0?

Discussion in 'Videocards - NVIDIA GeForce Drivers Section' started by Tastic, Jul 16, 2012.

  1. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    The two drivers @1 showed a few frames difference at most, with both 99% GPU usage. You can see with 296.10 @0 GPU usage dropped to 74%. That behavior cannot be reproduced with r300+ drivers (except with d3d antilag), which proves that it works differently.

    A reduction in GPU usage can affect input lag, as I mentioned earlier.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2012
  2. Spets

    Spets Ancient Guru

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    Ah, okay thanks for that :)
     
  3. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    No prob, you make great points. :) I was keeping that stuff in mind during my trials.

    All in all I think those guys have a valid complaint, zero does makes a difference (however large or small) and its functionality probably shouldn't have been removed.
     
  4. Raiga

    Raiga Maha Guru

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    Just a query (from the AMD side), is it truly possible to set flip queue to Zero on AMD cards?

    [I don't wanna create a new thread/topic and have people fight over it on the AMD section]
     

  5. Prophet

    Prophet Master Guru

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    NO, I think I mentioned this already. 1+ is hardcoded into the driver at least thats the infi i have.
     
  6. -Tj-

    -Tj- Ancient Guru

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    O yes it is, Nvidia said it - at least when it comes to input lag.. or are you working for nvidia, which i doubt :D


    And you didnt show us much, I dont see any 0 vs 0 comparison. They only way you could test is for example with 285.xx vs 296.xx.

    Also I kinda know the outcome - same mouse lag like at 0. And this is the main point of it, no? Your GF104/114 probably won't act the same as GF110 or GK104 at same frame to render ahead (fps stability wise), so you can't draw a straight line like that and call out facts., because yes its like comparing pears to apples. ;)

    Anyway tnx for taking your time to test what you did. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2012
  7. TheDeeGee

    TheDeeGee Ancient Guru

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    Thought id do some testing with Skyrim.

    I did turn iPresentInterval to 0 but it seems the game is hardcoded to have V-Sync Forced on now, but in the scene i used the FPS didn't reach over 60.

    While at 1 the Mouse Lag is for 80% gone you have to hand in 10 FPS.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Solace50

    Solace50 Member Guru

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    are the 6xx series screwed then or would a modded inf work with the 296.x drivers to retain the setting? since theres no "supported" driver before the 3xx series.
     
  9. Prophet

    Prophet Master Guru

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    '

    Yea modded 29* work fine.
     
  10. SadButTrue

    SadButTrue New Member

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    Numbers and graphs are great, but here is my apples to apples subjective comparison.

    Before "upgrading" to the GTX670 I had an AMD 6950. For the past few months I've sworn blind my input lag had increased. Recently I've been comparing my GTX670 with a friends nearly identical PC using the HD7850. The same keyboard/mouse/120hz monitor etc used. Latest official drivers on each. CPU power saving, HPET etc all off.

    The only difference:
    GTX670 - all possible input lag settings changed, even powermizer disabled with manual overclock
    HD7850 - default install, no driver changes

    I'm testing a variety of FPS games that yield >120fps, but mostly the Quake series. 120hz, vsync off.

    Results

    The GTX670 exhibits a rubber band effect when doing 180 degree turns at high sensitivity. It's like watching in slow mo. The delay in visual output causes you to cease movement too late, overshooting the target. The brain eventually tries to compensate but this is never accurate. A good FPS player can flick the mouse and get within a few degrees of their target time after time - not with this card/drivers.

    The HD7850 on the other hand shows none of the above issues and is entirely responsive.
     

  11. kalston

    kalston New Member

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    And how about using the GTX 670 without touching the so-called "input lag settings"? Quake games certainly work fine on my GTX 670 (using dev drivers 305.67 atm). It's also running in 3d clocks constantly just by having the "prefer max perf mode" in nvidia's global settings so I don't need to overclock or anything to avoid frequency fluctuations.
     
  12. SadButTrue

    SadButTrue New Member

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    Using default settings the GTX670 feels unplayable for me. I only recently gave up on CRTs so my tolerance for input lag is very low. The two biggest improvements are switching to No Scaling (which doesn't work properly) and disabling PowerMizer.
     
  13. zansiball

    zansiball Member

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    in battelfield bc2 you can set renderaheadlimit=0 in the game config.

    if you set it to "let 3d application decide" in the nvidia control panel will it be 0 in bf bc2?
     
  14. Prophet

    Prophet Master Guru

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    I set it to 0 in nvcpl and in the game and its more responsive than when having '1'. Why dont you try it. I also like to use rinput with bfbc2.
     
  15. SLI-756

    SLI-756 Banned

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    Arkham City pre-rendering can be disabled, the command OneFrameThreadLag=True, can be set to False.
    it's found in bmengine.ini (C:\Users\yourusername\Documents\Config), set the bmengine.ini to 'read only' after tweaking and see how much input lag you've been playing Arkham with, note: without silly pre-rendering it's more hardware demanding.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2012

  16. SLI-756

    SLI-756 Banned

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    OK i ran Arkham benchmark with pre-render set to app controlled then set to 1, setting it to 1 gave me a better framerate and interestingly enough was more demanding on gpu, gotta see how gameplay feels cause this '1' setting might just be what i'm looking for. lol
    *the gpu boost kicked in with it set to 1, but didn't under app controlled.
    First run 'app controlled', second (which produced better frames) '1', note how the '1' is more gpu intensive - ever so slightly lol, the first run got to 42% usage the second 47%
    So yeah i'm gonna start using '1' and see how it feels.

    [​IMG]

    --
    MAX PRE-RENDERED FRAMES BENCHMARKS
    http://forums.laptopvideo2go.com/topic/29333-max-pre-rendered-frames-benchmarks/

    I tested Arkham gameplay, '1' is so much less input laggier!!!!!

    wo Hoo!!!!!!!!!!! :cop:

    [​IMG]
    Grapnel Boosting around Harley Quinn's Revenge for a short spell, gpu boost was enabled most of the time (1189MHz), max core usage 95% --using the '1'.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
  17. rewt

    rewt Maha Guru

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    If you set the application to 0 in the ini, it could make sense that 1 gives better GPU utilization and framerate than app controlled (provided that the driver overrides it, which I have not tested myself). My earlier graphs demonstrated a similar concept. But what do we know, this thread only deserved a 1-star rating.

    Here's a great explanation detailing the game's "OneFrameThreadLag" setting and how it works.

     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
  18. tweakpower

    tweakpower Banned

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    If you set 0 pre-rendered frames instead of 3, it will not make any sense to have FPS gain, at least from great explanation you quoted above, i see exact same thing. While it is great explanation how some games engines work, i don't quite understand the connection here, and all i can pull out from that explanation, is that 3 frames ahead = more lag, 0 = less lag, and that's basically we all agree on.
     
  19. SLI-756

    SLI-756 Banned

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    Thanks rewt, had a quick scan of this in work and i'll now give this the attention it deserves, Arkham is one of my FAV games so thanks very much for posting this.
    Peace.

    Edit : i just tested game many many times alternating between the Arkham One Frame Thread Lag setting, i'm gonna revert it back to the default setting now (enabled), before when i was using app controlled pre-render it felt very laggy so i disabled the OFTL and it was better, but now i'm using pre-render '1' and with the OFTL enabled it feels more responsive, is more gpu demanding (just how we like it :p) and it gives better FPS.
    So yeah, shame i've been telling everyone on the web to disable this setting for the last 6 months when i should have been mentioning the nvidia pre-render setting.
    Not to worry there are some other nice arkham tweaks we got out there, like the DOF & Bloom disable. : )
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  20. kilyan

    kilyan Master Guru

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    range of setting is 0-8...i always set it to 8, i don't have any imput lags and games feel smoother when u have low fps.
    tht's why i can play gw2 with 10 fps with no problem,when there are crowded events
     

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