Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by morbias, Jan 25, 2016.
Do you find that the visual quality in the final game has been noticably degraded ?
There's been some comparison images but it's a old build which is why I decided to just run through it again and see for myself and from what I can tell of the full game it still retains a pretty high level of detail overall even though the forests have seen a reduction in vegetation and tree density but it was also very easy to get stuck between shrubs and trees especially on horseback so that could have played a part in it too.
There's a few differences due to the time of day and overall lighting and weather conditions being changed too since the last beta build update but it's very subjective, effects such as Crytek's SSDO ambient occlusion and SVOTI for vertex global illumination has seen some tweaking making them more subtle though it is mostly from tweaks to effect strength and overall appearance and nothing immediately related to optimizing these effects as such from what I got after checking the default values of some of these settings in the debug console which is available in both the beta and full version.
Cutscenes relied more on custom lighting and bokeh depth of field in the beta too whereas the full game tries to keep it a bit more natural although on slower mechanical HDD's there's now a slight loading screen as it initializes conversations with anything from named quest important NPC's to just random villagers or traders.
Beta has little overall optimization done to it too, for these images the game was running at around 10 - 15 FPS if even that at times, aside from cities in the full game hitting 30 FPS is doable with most settings enabled and even a few tweaks though some of the ultra quality categories need some individual tuning of the bundled cvars managing framerate and image quality a bit plus RAM and VRAM usage.
My own beta build images also draw upon SMAA T2X sacrificing image stability and sharpness for a reduction in aliasing, running the game at 3840x216, 5120x2880 or 7680x4320 via downsampling gives results like these:
Some of the assets repeat a bit too noticeably (That little twig sticking out from the ground is everywhere in my images too for example.) but I don't think the full game gets close to the same level of vegetation density and detailing though it's not too cut down either although it varies from one area to another from what I've seen so far both in this thread and also the other screenshot threads such as NeoGaf or ResetEra.
Though the beta in turn pales to the official media which almost looks like target renders or at times even concept art or tech showcases more than anything.
EDIT: If compared to something like Witcher 3 which had it's entire lighting model overhauled prior to release the changes here aren't as sweeping, it's more of a optimization process toning down a few things but gaining quite a bit of performance plus as other screenshots from the full game show it still looks really good.
(And having the same few plants over and over as in the beta build isn't the best either, Witcher 3 had a pretty good balance here and a nice amount of variety, heard Horizon Zero Dawn also nailed this and general asset detail though I haven't played the game myself)
Assassin's Creed Origins + Reshade
Assassin's Creed Origins - Exploration Mode / Tour.
It's a lot easier to interact with the game now without everything trying to kill you, ha ha.
And see the sights.
And it's possible to interact with the environment now through glowing little hot-spots.
And the characters, instead of glowing hot-spots all you have to do is bump into them.
(I don't think they approve very much of that though.)
(Actually just a bug but I found it funny, eye movement persists in photo mode to a degree.)
And all the nudity and wall art was removed for your viewing (dis)pleasure.
(Replacing the texture would have looked better than this odd blur effect here though.)
This could be really fun when the camera tools are updated since the defaults are still a bit range limited and lack certain controls plus the photo mode also disables a few effects when toggled. Interesting little update for the game though but just a quick stop until the next actual story DLC next month and finishing up the game.
(There's a couple of more DLC folders too so the next week or two will probably see more online store equipment, I don't think this patch updated the Heka chests either so the Chinese armor and the weapon pack from For Honor are still cash only plus whatever this update added to be unveiled later on.)
EDIT: There's a couple of different character choices too as you explore a safer, less naked Egypt.
(More direct though remove the nudity and as there's no violence = E rating for the stand-alone version of this, money!)
Kingdom Come Deliverance + Reshade
Always ruining otherwise good looking games with your reshades... but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder i guess...
What are you talking about that reshade is about as close to real light conditions you will get
Eh, no... oversaturated, way too much bloom, way too blurry. But i guess if you like having your games look like your ingame character is in desperate need of glasses, then it's perfect with all that blur...
oh I didn't click on the picture, I see it now. lol yeah....
The Witcher 3 Wild Hunt
Not mine (PS oil-paint filter)
The oil effect is really impressive, unfortunately it's not really possible to get it working as a real-time shader so it's applied via external utilities (I think it was a Photoshop plugin?) on a existing image file.
There was a full gallery of images using this effect from a year or two ago I believe (Witcher 3 being featured prominently.) though in motion I guess it wouldn't work nearly as well unfortunately.
EDIT: But the regular game still holds up well, shame about the changed lighting from the earlier images but the game looks pretty good still and the strong art direction and talent for 3d models, textures and shaders also helps.
it's not nice what is beautiful but it's nice what pleases...
Agree entirely with you
https://s25.**********/rlgeh16wv/golf_2018_02_21_14_25_23_994.jpg Some screens
There is a quest in the Heart of Stone expansion, that takes place inside a painting, and the effect in realtime is pretty cool, IMO.
Good shots Sameoldx2
Yeah I was quite impressed when I saw that, was quite impressed by the overall quality of the "DLC" or rather the expansion since it's quite sizeable too and full of content.
Kingdom Come : Deliverance
For this I enjoyed finding a more dense patch of vegetation, and just being out of the prologue part after hours of messing around and leveling up doing all kinds of things.
Found a small body of water here, also a bit of the town wall and more vegetation.
Doubling back and heading to the town gate, these areas all served to test GI further.
The time of day changes allowed for more testing during different lighting and shadow conditions, was heading towards the burgh here but veered off into the fields.
Tried getting a good overview here for the draw distance and overall feel and look of the environment, couldn't find a high enough area but it's not too bad although lack of fine camera controls limits things a little bit.
This is mostly experimenting with SVOTI or the voxel based global illumination effect and it's various cvars.
EDIT: And then I forget to post them, whoops.
(Lots of text follows here as I tried explaining things a bit more in-depth.)
(Thus the spoiler tag to reduce scrolling through a lot of text since this thread is meant for screenshots.)
//These three are the ultra preset SVOTI settings, cone max length tends to be the most obvious one adding shadows and indirect lighting on more distnat objects as expanded whereas the other two are more subtle, so why add these? Well in-game it seems to default to the v.high preset for some reason so I added these directly and set them from the main menu via "exec test.cfg"
//Experimental SVOTI setting for screen space depth tracing, going by the Cry-Engine Github code this is a on/off or 1/0 setting defaulting to 0 and adds a bit extra shadow detail far as I can tell, subtle though.
(Cry-Engine files on Github are also based on version 5 and not all cvars correspond to the in-game ones as a result though ? instead of a value often brings up a helpful description.)
//These fine tune diffuse amount, specular and saturation with a minor boost to ambient occlusion aiding the SSDO the game also uses by making shadows slightly more pronounced.
In effect I only raised saturation up from 0.8 to 1 and that's fairly unnoticeable but evens out the cvar, high values shift the entire color spectrum to I think negative values push it into red and positive values into blue.
Specular and diffuse use a default of 1 and from fine tuning the specular highlights seem to function best at that value with lower dimming many reflective surfaces and higher making them far more pronounced which while most obvious on armor becoming either white or black at either extreme it does also affects terrain and objects often adding a blue tinge to everything or darkening them at negative values.
Diffuse is mostly just color, at a higher value there's a extra "shine" or more accurately the brightness increases, I kinda like it but it's easy to push this way too high (2 and above.) and as expected it darkens the image at negative values.
There are other cvars and experimental features, some don't work correctly such as the SVOTI implementation cvar which at 0 is a single bounce simple effect and at 1 it's a double bounce effect that also fully replaces diffuse lighting and finally 2 is a more complex implementation.
0 works and is the default, 1 breaks most object lighting meaning buildings and some vegetation light up unnaturally or become multi colored and 2 does the same but also tanks the framerate.
(e_SvoTI_Implementation I think it was, I don't recommend altering it since it breaks more than it improves.)
EDIT: Far as other tweaks go the full thing looks as such. ->
This takes all cvars from the existing presets and then I apply some tweaks here and there, it needs a lot more fine testing and tuning and framerate is hit quite hard as a result too.
This in particular breaks character models and has to be set carefully, I changed it to 0 in the above example already because trying to set this back once in-game will generally just cause a crash.
(The default at v.high or ultra is 1 but there's a W.H comment on how it breaks things and has been disabled, turns out the base body model glitches out if this is enabled which is bad.)
On top of these the test.cfg file cvars are then added afterwards.
con_restricted = 0
bind f3 g_showhud 0
bind f4 g_showhud 1
cl_fov = 64
pl_movement.power_sprint_targetfov = 66
ai_ignoreplayer = 0
g_godmode = 0
g_skipintro = 0
g_timelimit = 0
//e_lods = 0
e_timeofday = 10
r_customreswidth = 2560
r_customresheight = 1440
r_vsync = 0
r_displayinfo = 0
r_drawnearfov = 64
This is just setting custom resolution, vsync and a few tweaks. (Batch type is still in need of further testing.)
(AI and G cvars are cheat protected and can't be enabled normally, code differences also makes it so enabling these don't really do anything and e_lods is commented out because you should not disable the lod system.)
EDIT: In effect I'm trying to get a little bit closer to the beta look in terms of light and shadows, exact match isn't going to be possible and there's material and shader changes too plus some textures were completely replaced including several for vegetation. Overall it's a little bit lighter due to the diffuse GI increase which well I have to get a bit more progress with the game to see how well it works in various time of day conditions and weather types.
Rest of the tweaks are mostly just a assortment of Cry-Engine tweaks adapted for what this game does to preset layouts (7 instead of 4 for example for sys_spec cvars.) plus changes over stock 3.8.6 Cry-Engine and the modifications Warhorse did.
(There's a lot of WH_ style cvars too, I have only begun tweaking these but it controls about a hundred settings going from the combat and dialogue to the RPG mechanics and some tweaks to visuals and also AI.)
EDIT: These cvars here to global illumination are also more of a brute force approach, for fine grained control editing the game assets is going to be required such as mission0.xml having all the time-of-day parameters inside it and for tuning vegetation density or replacing textures a editor and the source files and other assets will have to be provided by the developer which is something they're exploring but it's not 100% certain if the game will be moddable yet or to which extent. (Currently since it's not encrypted there's a variety of tweak mods and script adjustments so it is moddable to a degree at least even if it's small.)
EDIT: And the cvar examples in the spoiler tags aren't really something to use as a default, they're a bit rough and it needs more testing and tuning, a lot of them could likely be turned down significantly without impacting the visual quality in any noticeable way and others might not work as the engine usually handles the setting due to changes done by Warhorse.
Built from tweaks since Crysis 2 and then updated, removed and tweaked through Crysis 3, Ryse and other Cry-Engine games since version 3 to 3.5 and now 3.8.6 and eventually maybe V / 5.x and more.
When possible dumping the game cvars and comparing one by one what works and what has been altered or removed while time consuming is usually how I do this process, then it's tuning them to match whatever game I'm currently adding them to.
Takes time and in this case it's less the original list of cvars and more taking the entire ultra preset, mixing in and replacing or removing cvars and making it a complete override.
(For use in-game I do recommend removing the sys_spec* = 7 cvars first at the very least, these ensure ultra quality is used but it also reloads the game and assets and this takes time and isn't strictly required but they're there for completion for the full list of settings used.)
As such those are more of a rough starting point and with minor tweaks here and there, not a actual complete tweak or max quality preset which well they're high but it's possible to push several things in the engine higher but diminishing returns means it's better to balance framerate and image quality to a playable middle ground or how to say, balance or what to call it. (V.High or even High is pretty good as is really, ultra goes farther than the engine defaults and is mostly for the current highest-end systems or perhaps future GPU hardware if you're going 2560x1440 or above and want reliable 30+ FPS everywhere let alone 60 or more which is going to require new GPU hardware.)
Still have a lot more to learn about Cry-Engine and tweaking it, pushing the GPU more than it can really handle too but what else is new ha ha, also have a lot more to learn as to what and how Warhorse changes this particular 3.8.6 build of the engine for whatever modifications they wanted which has some impact on which tweaks works and what they do.
Makes for some really nice looking screens though, very natural looking and also believable and fairly realistic although games still have a ways to go for photo realism of course.
And a bit buggy but that advice from the 1980's somewhere still holds up well, save often and use multiple slots.
(Course back then game developers deliberately complicated games with dead-ends, misleading tips and vague hints or really obscure puzzles and so on. )
A few more Kingdom Come screens.
That last one looks absolutely amazing - how did you get the vegitation to render so far out, and building to be of high quality at that distance? I have all sliders on max, but render distance is nowhere that in my game.