The Future of Steam and other launchers

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by angelgraves13, Mar 21, 2019.

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Does EGS pose a risk to Steam?

  1. Yes... It's about time Steam had competition.

    20 vote(s)
    28.2%
  2. No... Steam or die!

    28 vote(s)
    39.4%
  3. Don't care... It's all fun and games.

    21 vote(s)
    29.6%
  4. Don't care... I'll go with whoever's left standing.

    2 vote(s)
    2.8%
  1. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    Is there any company that does? Let's be real here, gaming for big companies like Epic, Valve, Microsoft, Sony, it's a business. They're going to do what they can to invest in their business. But it's not like Epic is investing money in grants to help up and new comers with learning development or getting the tools to do so or whatever,

    https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/...-twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

    Mind you this is an increase from their Unreal Dev Grants program which was a $5 million fund in 2015, what other big company in gaming has done this?
     
  2. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    Doesn't matter if there are or aren't companies that do or don't do that. Why should that matter? I don't like it or what they are doing, and I don't see a single reason, again, to support Epic.. so why should I?

    Same damn argument over and over and yet the only response seems to be that it's "normal". That doesn't matter and isn't enough for people to switch to a new launcher. Sorry!

    And say what you want about companies and etc, but Steam/Valve have been doing more for gaming in one year than Epic has done in their entire lifetime (The Epic grant is nice I will admit that though). It's obvious that companies are out there for their best interest.. but here's the thing you guys seem to misunderstand.. these companies best interest is our best interest. We are the customers. If the product sucks it doesn't matter. People find loyalty in good things and good companies reap the rewards of good press and followings. I can bet you that Nintendo makes a killing thanks to being a good name in gaming. People like Nintendo. People are willing to give Nintendo money.

    I wanted to like Epic.. hell I used to until this fiasco. Certainly it's obvious by all the posts, Reddit topics, website posts, etc and etc that this hit a nerve on users. Certainly you can see all the frustration comes from some where right? It's not all unwarranted. People are upset because of how Epic is handling this. Again.. for the last time.. they could have done this all in a way that would not have upset so many people. It's a serious lack of tact.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  3. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    You kind of make it seems like it matters though with that quote I quoted from you earlier.

    But let's also remember a few things, Valve's biggest contribution has to be the Linux VK development, which is cool but this is a very niche project and a very small minority of usage in the overall market. Valve in terms of game distribution has been around a lot longer as well, which has given them a lot more chances to do more. Would I say Valve or other big companies like EA that have digital distribution are doing this for our best interest? I would easily argue against that, just based on the fact of the 30% cut Steam takes from developers, the review system in Steam, and as far as EA is concerned the Loot boxes. They are all companies, they are in it to make a profit. I can't blame them for doing business practices that are very common.
     
  4. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    I've been following the Linux and Vulkan development and honestly I think that's one of the best things for gaming right now. Moving away from having to use Direct X and giving users the ability to choose is massive. It is niche, I agree, but it's huge and has big potential to change gaming on PC. This of course goes along with the other work they do like VR, controllers, etc. I don't want to make this about Valve vs Epic though, because that's not my point. I have something against Epic, so it's more about what Epic lacks than what Valve provides.

    I agree with you, just like I have with others. I totally understand how businesses work and that they are going for a profit. My point here is that they went about it very wrong, at least to the consumer perspective. There is such a thing as PR for a reason. The consumers don't want to feel like cattle. My entire argument here is that Epic could have done better to win people over, instead they are using a brute tactic that has pushed people away. I'm one of those people that would have probably not had an issue with EGS if games I had planned to buy already weren't taken away from me. I'm completely against how they are going about their exclusivity acquisition, and honestly exclusivity in general, but even that wouldn't have been as much of a problem if it was handled better.

    I had the Epic Games Store before Metro Exodus was pulled from Steam.
     

  5. rm082e

    rm082e Master Guru

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    I really don't get the complaining. Why is it a problem to have an additional icon on the taskbar that you open to launch a game? I've already got launchers for Steam, Origin, UPlay, and Battlenet. Should I not be playing fun games like Destiny, Diablo, Dvision 2, Crysis, Titanfall, etc.? Should I knowingly avoid fun games that offer a gazillion hours of fun just because they're not available on Steam?
     
  6. vbetts

    vbetts Don Vincenzo Staff Member

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    I will agree Epic should have handled this better, but I don't think what they did pushed a whole lot of people away. Metro for example still sold very well on the Epic store, but pointing fingers at just Epic though, you should also be pointing fingers at the developers taking the deal, which from a business aspect anyway not taking that money would be dumb. That being said, I wouldn't think of it as it's an exclusive, and I think that's where Epic also makes a mistake. Calling it an exclusive on an open platform gives it a bad persona when a number of people who do play on PC's play because they are trying to get away from the exclusives markets in consoles, where you are only tied to one market, one ecosystem. PC however, you have multiple markets on your device, you aren't limited to just installing one distribution method. It would be one thing if Epic limited that to where their launcher is the only launcher you can use on PC, but you're still free to use whatever launcher you want to.
     
  7. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    Look back at the previous 6 pages and you'll see it barely has to do with that at all. You can add any .exe to Steam or most launchers. Hardly anyone cares about that.

    I don't think it's fair to look at the developers. They have zero say in these sort of deals. I also really doubt Metro Exodus sold well on Epic, not compared to what it may have sold otherwise. Epic's figures were vague.. although I'll stand corrected if proven otherwise. I just don't buy corporate speech like that anymore.. not without real backing. It's not like Tim Sweeney hasn't spewed BS out of his mouth hole before. They could have revealed real figures instead of vague statements and they only compared to Last Light (non redux) on release.

    I agree that exclusivity is a little different on PC than consoles, but it is still exclusivity regardless. The problem though isn't so much being tied to using their launcher as much as it is with them taking games away that have already been advertised on Steam last minute. I admit I would still be a little upset that Epic is nabbing exclusives.. but if we had known well ahead of time and if Epic handled it with a little more class it wouldn't have hit so hard and I personally wouldn't be here defending the outcry against it. Hell... Epic could be doing PC gamers a solid even more so by grabbing more PlayStation exclusives and putting them on PC. That's golden and I support that big time, even if it is exclusive to their launcher as long as it was handled correctly and not advertised all over the place to be taken last minute. I would still prefer those games to be available on all PC stores, but I could at least get behind that considering Epic would most likely be paying to get them out of PlayStation only.

    I'm also not a big fan of how they are trying to fill the shelves without first finishing with the building. If they want to compete with other launchers they should have features available beforehand.. but all of this is really second hand to how they are pulling games away from other platforms. It just would not be a big deal if they handled it differently. Origin, Uplay, etc all handled it just fine. I bought Division 2 off uPlay yesterday without a care in the world. No problems using uPlay at all. The game wasn't on Steam and I knew ahead of time that I'd be using uPlay. uPlay has features I like and use, and I never had any issues with the client.
     
  8. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    I think the one thing that epic has done correct is getting PlayStation exclusives to come to PC, if they did more of that then there would be legitimate reason for gamers to want to use their store, paying off publishers to not release games on the preferred pc platform is just going to continue to make people angry, but securing console exclusives, things that otherwise would not have been available on PC, now that's at least interesting.
     
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  9. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Have you see the price of that game, they are definitely money people.

    Aa for Epic getting PlayStation exclusive's, do we know much about that?
    Was it Valve's large cut of profits putting them off PC gaming, or was it always going to happen and Epic just got on there first.

    I wouldn't mind a bidding war between Epic and Valve, could make things interesting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  10. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    That's what I mean.. they have a chance to do things right here. I would be on the opposite side cheering Epic on if they looked at it that way. They should be looking at how to make it a better experience for everyone involved and not just one side. They just need to communicate ahead of time and not make these last minute under the table deals. Bring on PS exclusives by your doing (Epic) and then you'll have a reason for me to install the launcher.

    Bring on PS games to every store but make it much cheaper on EGS.. then you'll have a real Epic fan.
     

  11. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    @Kolt You're fighting a noble fight here dude and I admire it. But unfortunately EGS has a huge f*kin bulldozer and tons of Chinese money to back it up. I'm sure they couldn't care less about a loud minority fighting for justice, they'll just trash the land until there is nothing left. Was it 85 exclusives they've signed so far? That number will just keep climbing I'm afraid. Unless a looot of people vote with our wallets, nothing will change. People often don't see the big picture here, just words like "12% cut".

    The only slightly positive thing here is that the price of EGS Metro is down to Steam pre-order levels.

    Edit - I'm curious how long it will take for the launcher to become something more than an empty shell. I've seen the road map (which by the way includes such basic things that's its appalling how it was even released in the first place without them) so at the end of the year it might be OK.
     
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  12. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    No doubt. I know it doesn't mean crap in the end and I have no intention of making a real fight over it because I am a realist myself :p

    I honestly was avoiding this topic altogether but I'm too passionate about gaming to let it go haha. No hard feelings against anyone as it's always good to talk about stuff (that's the point of forums), but I feel like some people are going out of there way to just argue for the sake of arguing..

    I've really said enough though and don't want to be a hypocrite myself.
     
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  13. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    I understand you man, I really do cause I share your arguments (as you can see based on my posts). Personally I know that in the end I'll just give up :) (Maybe it's got to do with age?)

    I also agree that arguing for the sake of arguing is not exemplary but maybe it's in the nature in some.

    Damn companies thinking they can do anything they want...back in the day the solution was pitchforks, torches and stones. Now it's not that easy anymore :) I'll personally always feel betrayed by Epic robbing me of my Metro game. Will take a long time for me to forgive them...that's for sure.
     
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  14. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    Haha I feel you with the age bit. It's too exhausting putting up a fight sometimes (and I'm only 32). It's all for good intentions though. I just want my favorite hobby to stop being run into the ground by corporate greed.. but that's the reality we live in. I know this. It doesn't mean I won't die kicking and screaming though :p
     
  15. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Ancient Guru

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    I still don't get it. Sure it's a bonehead thing to do to remove a game from Steam after it was advertised there. But it's not like you have to BUY another platform to play the game on like console exclusives. You download a free application and run your game. These companies are in the business of making money and I think the sales of Metro proved that most gamers just don't care what platform its on, they just want to play the game. I would bet most of the people who complained the loudest were on the fence about buying it anyway.
     

  16. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I honestly have no idea why anyone would be passionate about this, its just a store.
    If someone mentioned paying more or waiting a year for the same product when buying from a physical store, people would think you were losing it.

    If it's about corporate greed, then you should support what Epic are doing as it could/should force Valve to be competitive.
    Not that Epic are doing it to be the good guys, far from it as they are exploiting Valve arrogance/complacency, but the end result could be positive, and that's far more importance than store loyalties or a gui preference.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  17. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    Digital license that must be used with corresponding DRM/launcher =/= Physical merchandise that isn't tied to said store. Refrigerators don't require me to make an account and keep using Best Buy services to use my fridge (warranty is different story. Don't nitpick :p).

    ffs just when I thought I was done posting, they pull me back in!

     
  18. BetA

    BetA Ancient Guru

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    ill just leave that here... something more, umm, nice stuff in between those Posts^^

    Quote:
    We’re pleased to announce that RAGE 2, Wolfenstein: Youngblood, Wolfenstein: Cyberpilot, and DOOM Eternal will be released on Steam as well as on Bethesda.net client.​

    https://twitter.com/bethesda/status/1110225138979651584

    uh, no exclusivity.. it also works the other way around...
     
  19. angelgraves13

    angelgraves13 Ancient Guru

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    A small victory today for consumers! Bethesda's games will be available on Steam as well as Bethesda.net. That's how things should be. We should be able to purchase the games on whichever store we like. That's something Epic will never understand. They don't even give us the choice.

    Now I need to get a refund for Rage 2 on Bethesda.net.
     
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  20. nhlkoho

    nhlkoho Ancient Guru

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    I think he was referring more to people that prefer to have a physical disc copy of the game rather than appliances. But still, even if you buy a physical disc copy of a game, 99% of the time you still need to activate the game somewhere whether it be a launcher like Steam or some type of license server. And even then, you still don't own the game. Your license can be revoked or the servers can go down making it impossible to play or reinstall the game.
     

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