The Future of Steam and other launchers

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by angelgraves13, Mar 21, 2019.

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Does EGS pose a risk to Steam?

  1. Yes... It's about time Steam had competition.

    20 vote(s)
    28.2%
  2. No... Steam or die!

    28 vote(s)
    39.4%
  3. Don't care... It's all fun and games.

    21 vote(s)
    29.6%
  4. Don't care... I'll go with whoever's left standing.

    2 vote(s)
    2.8%
  1. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    You have a pretty weak understanding of how these things seem to work. Simply making the game cheaper on Epic wouldn't have worked, it certainly wouldn't have had the effect that Epic wanted it too. It was clear that they were given a massive incentive to go to Epic and the reason Epic did that was to get them an USP. The entire point behind it is not just to get people in to their store front as to buy THAT specific game but to get people in to their store front with a view to showing people what they offer. If they had just signed a deal to get Metro on to the Epic store and stuck it at a cheaper price, then 95% of folk would have gone, huh a bit cheaper their but I've got Steam so I'll stick with what I know.

    Making it 100% exclusive to their platform has had the effect that Epic wanted it to have, even the entire anti-consumer BS surrounding it has had the effect that they wanted it too. People are talking about their store, some people will have even installed the Store just to see what all the fuse is about. Grabbing a game and making it cheaper on their platform would have resulted in nothing. No one would have talked about it but here we are a month out from Metro's launch and people are STILL talking about the Epic store.

    What makes the entire thing more comical is the raging anger that gamers seem to have about it. Being so mad about it and claiming that I'll wait or I won't buy it doesn't work.

    1). By talking about it, as I've said you are doing what Epic want you to do. The best course of action would be to not say anything and just buy the game elsewhere when it comes out.
    2). Most folk talk a good game but when it comes right down to it very few will stick to their guns proven by the fact that more copies of Exodus sold than Metro LL.

    Why you shouldn't wait a year to buy the game on Steam? Well that's an easy one, if the guys running Epic have any business savy they will wait until the hot button game that 'launched' their store arrives on Steam and then they will heavily undercut the price. This again gets people talking about their store front, why because the folk complaining and saying they will wait will be back on the forums in a years time saying how they waited how their righteous indignation paid off and they will now finally buy the game and in doing that they will yet again be bringing the Epic store in to the conversation and if that store happens to be undercutting the Steam store then you'll have the counter debaters saying that they could just get the game for a fraction of the price on The Epic Store instead and bam you have folk talking about The Epic Store again.

    Of course the alternative reason to not waiting a year is what have Steam / Valve done to deserve your business? They have been equally 'anti consumer' as Epic over the years, they were one if not the last DSF to offer a refund policy, their customer support has been somewhere between non existent and laughable for years, they introduced the paid for mods service and then removed it within weeks and utterly failed to take ANY responsibility for what a total cluster f it was and their store is slowly turning in to a slow, janky, bug filled garbage fire that has a daily delivery of fresh fecal matter poured over it and let's face it Valve isn't your friend, certainly not any more than the guys at Epic. By all means wait if that is what your morals tell you to do but certainly don't wait because you think that Steam or Valve are better than Epic because they certainly are not.
     
  2. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    Things can always be fixed.
    But right now, Epic... is lacking in basic features and functionality. It took them a few month to add a search function.
    The store is not well designed, or consumer friendly. It's insecure and easily hacked. Their customer support when it comes to account breaches... it laughably bad to the point of being insulting.

    Yes, these are all things that can be fixed and improved.
    But at the moment, there's nothing about EGS that would make a consumer want to use it. So, instead of reaching that level of quality... Epic is attempting to force consumers hands with exclusivity. "If you want this game, you HAVE to use us"
    The bottom line is Epic wants what Valve has, they are trying to spin it... making Steam look like the bad guy, and making them look like the industry savior... but they just want it themselves. And are trying to accomplish it by cutting corners instead of putting in the proper work and earning it.

    Then, people like Tim Sweeney talk down to players and consumers when they voice their disapproval for the store, it's issues or the practice of exclusivity.
     
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  3. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Pulled from the Metro thread as i'm not a fan of a gaming thread being over-run with non gaming stuff, i'm also going to see what free stuff ins on EGS so i can test it for myself.

    I haven't read every single article, but the Epic statement i read claimed that the sales figure was about the quality of the game, not the store it is sold on.

    We all know this is about Epic trying to get in on the action now that PC gaming is huge, and has nothing to do with helping developers, but it's Valve's greed that has led to this so i'm not going to accept they are some innocent party in this.
     
  4. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    Epic has a trend of doing stuff, then making a statement afterwards to "clarify" what they meant.
    They've been doing it for years and years...

    Their statement claimed it was the quality of the game...

    But, their presentation...
    [​IMG]
    Flat out tries to make it seem being exclusive to Epic made it better compared to Steam.
     
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  5. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Or that it made no difference to the sales of the game, people interpret this sort of marketing based on their own preconceptions. Let's be honest, if you, i, or anyone else was in charge of marketing for EGS, we would all do exactly the same thing.

    It's really not important though, what is important is can Epic force Valve to drop the amount they take for every game sold on Steam?
     
  6. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    When you think about it... why would they say 2.5x instead of giving actual sales number?

    Other games that do well always are like... "we sold 2 million copies".

    2.5x is a number that contains no facts, 2.5x compared to what? the original game, or the re-release, or the re-release + the original release, PC only? are console sales included?

    I also read that Exodus was torrented like crazy on pc to the point it has had more people torrent it compared to other pc games that have been out for years.... that's just crazy.
     
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  7. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    It's ignorant to think that negative press is always good press, especially with in regards to video games. Go say hi to Fallout 76.. Or Battlefront 2.. or Anthem.. or most games that have had negative press and isn't doing so well.. Also, comparing sales of Last Light initial release to Exodus initial release is moot and shows a disregard for understanding on 'how these things work'. Corporate speech blah blah blah. Nothing of real concrete or credible information and was revealed. You'd have to be pretty naive to not see the corporate BS talk when they spouted those 'numbers'. I'm not convinced one bit that Metro Exodus sold well on EGS.. not compared to what it probably would have sold if it was still on Steam, GMG, etc.
     
  8. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

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    Have you actually tried using the store or are you just repeating what others have said? Lacking basic functionality? - the basic functionality of a launcher is to play games, which it does very well. In what way is it not consumer-friendly? Please provide a solid example.
     
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  9. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    I've downloaded it and grabbed Oxenfree, and seems more than adequate so far.

    The way i see it, Valve created this when they decided to be so greedy. In the future i would like to see everything sold on every platform, but things need to be shaken up and maybe EGS exclusive games is the best way forward to get things going.
     
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  10. The Laughing Ma

    The Laughing Ma Ancient Guru

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    You do see the difference between the games you listed and Metro? That the primary complaints with those games were in fact with the games themselves and NOT the store front from which they were being sold. It's also equally as ignorant to assume that bad press will automatically result in a poorly selling game. It also comes down to what the definition of bad press is. The games you listed got bad press because they were legitimately bad. Metro being sold exclusively on EGS was hardly bad press, it only turned in to 'bad press' when the crying man children decided that they shouldn't have sold the game on someone else's store front after advertising on Steam for x amount of months. A subset of the community saw it as bad press when in reality it was just press and it put EGS in the head lines of any number of gaming websites, Youtube commentator videos and forum posts and it's still being talked about now and better yet it will still be talked about when the eventual Steam release of the game roles round in a years time.

    As for the release figures, you know that x2.5 is not a moot point. In fact it is a very big point. Publishers care about the first week sales of their games, these are the big numbers and they are the numbers that they give the biggest interest too, What Epic have done there is tell all the publishers that were sitting at the side lines waiting to see what the fallout out from all this nonsense would be is that in the real world it made no difference, despite of all the noise, all the complaining, all the nay saying if you chose to sell your game through our store front it will make no difference to the sales. People WILL buy it and because we charge you less YOU will actually be better off in the long run.

    You could also look at it as a massive middle fingers to all the complaining man children who said they wouldn't buy from their store and sat their secretly hoping the game would do badly and while that is a somewhat childish thing for a big game publisher / developer to do I would say in this instance it is wholly justified.

    Or you could look at it in one of two ways, that despite all the complaining and moaning about it a lot of these folk still went out and bought the game or that their is a larger majority out there who simply didn't care and that the noise was being generated by a very small subset of the community. The former shows a community with an utter lack of moral fibre the latter shows that the small community who complained arent actually significant enough to have had any affect on the game so what's aren't really worth listening too.
     

  11. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    LOL. I don't even know where to begin here with some of you guys. It's like arguing with a child who can't grasp what is being said. I will say something and you will find something minor to nitpick about it. Then I will say something else and you'll find something else to nitpick.. something that doesn't really matter in the whole scope of the picture. Yes those games have a little difference, but it doesn't matter in the end. They got negative press and gamers avoided them. Negative press isn't good in the gaming industry.. duh?

    What Epic did is nothing more than try to make their side of this look better by painting their own picture. I'll believe real statistics and not their fluff.

    and.. lol... manchildren... really??! hahahaha. Only person I see here taking anything to any degree of real complaining and moaning are people like you who seem to have a personal agenda against those of us with the balls to just wait a year. Seriously.. why are you so upset? lol
     
  12. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

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    Nitpicking is basically the internet in a nutshell.

    Like for example, it annoys me every time I see The Laughing Ma comment, not because of what he is writing , but just seeing his username..... because I am like, he probably meant to write The Laughing Man, which I guess would be a reference to the Ghost in the Shell anime series? but I guess that was too many characters for a username on Guru3D so now he is stuck being The Laughing Ma...

    @The Laughing Ma this is off topic you don't have to reply to this... xD
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  13. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    Could just be a mom that laughs a lot? I don't know lol
     
  14. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

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    With a game on both Epic and Steam, the price would have to be way way lower to justify the inconvenience of managing another launcher while everyone already has Steam installed.
    It would also completely defeat the whole purpose in the process: the goal is to give more to the people working on the game instead of publishers/retailers, not to drive the game price down.


    Valve and Epic are competing for games and i think it's great, can't remember any store having such impact that Valve had to adapt its Steam strategy.
    We already had evolution on Steam revenue share, and now a design rework, in barely 5months, i think it's great.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  15. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

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    Vampire Bloodlines 2 is managing it, it's available on Steam, GoG their own website and Epic.
    And they've said on their twitter that they promise it will not go exclusive to any one service.
     
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  16. Carfax

    Carfax Ancient Guru

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    Those "bad tactics" are regarded as standard business practices and employed by companies all over the World every second of every day, many of which you are already doing business with without even knowing.

    No, it doesn't bother me one bit. I just find it naive and nonsensical.

    Yes, this description fits most of us here, including myself. Which is why I care about a developer's bottom line. I want the games that I like to sell well and the developers/publishers to make nice profits so they can make more games.

    Yes, but you have to acknowledge that monetary gain is the primary motivation behind why games are made in the first place. Without money, games will cease to be made so I don't understand how you can say you're invested in the future of PC gaming, yet have such an apathetic perspective on developer profits. There is a long line of the corpses of game development studios that have failed due to lack of sales and or lack of funding. If you ever wonder why independent game developers allow themselves to be bought by large companies like EA, Microsoft or Sony, it's because the financial backing of those companies makes game development far less risky.

    A 30% cut is a BIG DEAL for a lot of developers, especially the ones that don't have a big backer. Poor sales from a single unsuccessful release is usually enough to sink them completely.

    See, this is why I think you're naive. These aren't "brute force" tactics, it's just regular business procedures that a lot of companies use to lure potential customers. Much like offering free games, and tons of other methods.

    .

    I didn't say it was over the top for you not to care about using an inferior launcher. I said it was over the top for you to make it into an ethical argument.
     
  17. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Vampire Bloodlines 2 is managing it as Epic obviously haven't offered them anything for exclusivity, but I bet they want people to buy it from any store other than Steam though.

    I don't particularly like any developer, but if I did I would avoid buying from Steam unless I had no other choice.
     
  18. Redemption80

    Redemption80 Ancient Guru

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    Sorry, double post.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  19. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

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    Still would be cool if they were offered something but turned it down :D
     
  20. Kolt

    Kolt Ancient Guru

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    Hilarious. We will just have to agree to disagree here then. Saying something is a regular business practice doesn't mean I should be OK with it. I don't like how Epic is handling this so I choose to not like or support Epic. There is not a single reason for someone like me to start using the Epic launcher outside of if I can't wait a year, and yet some of you just can't get over that and want to argue it like it's cutting into your own bottom line. You are acting like Epic is some amazing shining knight in armor here to help developers but we all know that it's a short term BS ploy just to get people to switch to Epic. Epic isn't trying to champion the cause and win customers hearts here.. they are trying to take advantage of a situation with all that phat Fortnite cash in hopes of being the next Steam. They aren't just trying to compete and play fair here. Think about that for a second. You don't seriously think Epic is doing this for the developers and customers do you? hahaha. That is naive.

    I'm kind of done arguing here though. It's pointless. I keep saying the same things and so do you all and it's going no where. Who procreating cares. Enjoy your shady Epic launcher and I will simply wait a year for the very few exclusives they picked up that I actually care about. I get my games later on when I actually want to play them and Epic gets none of my money. Win win for me. Not a single comment in any of these threads can give a real reason for anyone to use Epic outside of exclusivity, and yet we can find TONS of reasons instead to avoid the launcher and Epic altogether. Argue all you want. If this hurts the developers in the end like you think it does, then the gaming market needs a wake up call and so be it. I don't think Epic is the right company to take charge of anything like that though. I think Epic is going to get some attention and users but it won't make much of a difference because they aren't offering anything outside of exclusives and once that all dries up their product and company tact still lack. Time will only tell for sure.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019

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