The Future of Steam and other launchers

Discussion in 'Games, Gaming & Game-demos' started by angelgraves13, Mar 21, 2019.

?

Does EGS pose a risk to Steam?

  1. Yes... It's about time Steam had competition.

    23 vote(s)
    28.4%
  2. No... Steam or die!

    29 vote(s)
    35.8%
  3. Don't care... It's all fun and games.

    26 vote(s)
    32.1%
  4. Don't care... I'll go with whoever's left standing.

    3 vote(s)
    3.7%
  1. RzrTrek

    RzrTrek Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,485
    Likes Received:
    696
    GPU:
    RX 580 ❤ MESA 20.1+
    "We believe exclusives are the only strategy that will change the 70/30 status quo at a large enough scale to permanently affect the whole game industry"... I think we're doomed. :D

    I know it's hard to live a principled life, but we're half of the problem; we talk big, but rarely back it up with action and the only way I see EGS going away is by not supporting their platform.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2019
  2. XP-200

    XP-200 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    5,331
    Likes Received:
    887
    GPU:
    Zotac GTX 1080 Mini
    At Halloween Randy Pitchford dresses up as Tim Sweeney. Lol
     
    lucidus likes this.
  3. Backstabak

    Backstabak Master Guru

    Messages:
    572
    Likes Received:
    215
    GPU:
    Gigabyte Rx 5700xt
    Yeah, I'm sure that everyone just LOVES the exclusives that are on the consoles. It makes both consoles just so much better that no console owner has ever flamed other for having different set of games available for them.

    Thank god PC games aren't locked to specific HW.
     
  4. Damien_Azreal

    Damien_Azreal Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    10,478
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    GPU:
    Gigabyte 1070 Ti
    Thing is... that's not exactly a solid comparison.

    If you own a Xbox, you know... that you can go to any store and buy a game for Xbox, and that's it. It's open for you to play on your system however you want.

    While PC, has been splintered and fractured apart over the years.
    And Epic are only adding to that. Yes, consoles have their exclusives, but to their platform. PC... a platform in itself... has exclusives only to specific shops on that platform.
    That... is flawed logic.
     

  5. cerebus23

    cerebus23 Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    4,277
    Likes Received:
    546
    GPU:
    evga 8800gts
    as i recall some game were vodoo exclusive but were usually patched to rivera or tnt or whatever?

    unreal as i recall was vodoo and the patches were a bit buggy on my hardware that was i want to say tnt something
     
  6. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,536
    Likes Received:
    3,508
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    At this point I already reached a threshold of letting Sweeney live inside his self-righteous bubble. I only wish he was featured by news sites etc. less often because it's just feeding a PR troll at this point.

    He might feed the industry, I can honestly see that as a given positive to the situation (although I honestly still doubt that money goes to devs but instead just into publisher's pockets), but trying to sell it to gamers as something positive, something pro-consumer, is so blatanly wrong and an outright lie that I'd wish that guy would just shut up. Newell keeps out of this and lets it all work out because he knows he can't win people over with ranting tweets, Sweeney should do the same.

    Only the future will tell if anything really improves. As of now, I only see games I don't get because I don't want to get another launcher. Same as with console exclusives, since I don't want to buy a console for a few games only. Sure the hurdle is less with just installing another bit of software, but it has to end at some point. It's already bothersome to need the uplay launcher when you buy ubi games on Steam. It's annoying that you can't play EA games unless you install origin. Adding another launcher which "only" is timely exclusive is just something many gamers will sit out, and in the end just buy that stuff on steam.
    In a few years I wouldn't be surprised if they (the industry) learned that they sold just as many copies, made just the same amount of money, but only due to Epic's guarantees, not due to a higher cut, since afterwards not everybody will pay full price for a one year old game... let's just see how this turns out, and in the meantime:

    Shut up Sweeney.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
    Keitosha, lucidus and Netherwind like this.
  7. Backstabak

    Backstabak Master Guru

    Messages:
    572
    Likes Received:
    215
    GPU:
    Gigabyte Rx 5700xt

    I'm not making a direct comparison of consoles and PC (although this argument can be made too, as they both have accounts for MP), I'm simply pointing out that the exclusives do not make a gaming industry/competition better and do not lead to benefits for end consumers, as Sweeney is trying to argue. I am actually strongly against the exclusives and especially the practice of Epic, as I have argued over most of the past 40 pages.
     
  8. Stone Gargoyle

    Stone Gargoyle Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    5,806
    Likes Received:
    451
    GPU:
    GTX 1060 G1
    f u c k this guy n what epic mega games has become way to go flushin the industry down the toilet even faster than it was already!!!
     
    Keitosha, lucidus and Netherwind like this.
  9. lucidus

    lucidus Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,856
    Likes Received:
    1,379
    GPU:
    .
    You can add me to the list of people who cba with more accounts just to play games and then dealing with security issues down the line- Epic has plenty of those. If it's not on sale on steam/gog then it's not getting my money. I won't be buying anything on uplay or epic or whatever, I'd like to make that choice and not have it made for me. I haven't bought a game on origin and I certainly won't be making an exception for these guys.

    The dev cut thing is just marketing. None of this would happen without payments and guarantees in exchange for exclusivity. It also makes Epic's numbers seem dubious in my eyes. We shouldn't even care about the "devs". Time and again it is shown that the money only goes to execs and developers are forced to work as contractors and abused. This industry isn't worth "supporting".
     
  10. KissSh0t

    KissSh0t Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,797
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    GPU:
    ASUS RX 470 Strix
    One of the funniest epic launcher things I've read is someone getting Slime Rancher when it was being offered as a free game, and when the user re-installed the epic launcher after... I think he reinstalled windows and then went to install Slime Rancher again, it was no longer associated with that users account, they contacted epic support and they said the game was never registered to the users account so they won't be doing anything about it.

    The funny part is the user still had the Slime Rancher game files left over from what epic launcher downloaded / installed.

    How does that even work.... lol.

    Epic
     
    Keitosha and fantaskarsef like this.

  11. fantaskarsef

    fantaskarsef Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    11,536
    Likes Received:
    3,508
    GPU:
    2080Ti @h2o
    Yes, working conditions is another facette in this whole picture. Recently the news of crunch times have come around more often, both on the "we are abused" as well as "we don't force people to crunch!" lines. Seems the industry suffers from huge issues with basic things like development time and thus, cost. And that's exactly why I don't trust this "bigger cut to the devs" line among everything Epic tries to sell us... I just don't see this happening (yet?).
    And sadly, launch times are not really the choice of a company, but mostly part of their contracts with publishers in many cases... those are the true evil in the business, living off dev's work 100%. And when the publisher expects a game to be released (to match their own finencial planning), the dev can only crunch... no matter how big that cut or guarantee is, I've yet to hear from a single dev that's not self publishing and gets more time for a better game in recent years.

    If there were news incoming of "hey, Epic paid us extra, so the publisher gave us another 6 months to release so we don't have to crunch", by all means, that would be my strongest argument to support such a practice. But here we already see the issue with the business, since the guaranteed sales keep devs aflot (that we have heard from them a few times), and not on dry land. Water's still running to their necks, and they just don't drown... doesn't mean they're doing any better, just that the point of drowning is postponed.


    That's... well, something. As of now, they'd still have to offer something that makes me want to use EGS.
     
    Keitosha likes this.
  12. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,123
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    GPU:
    2 x GeForce 1080 Ti
    Although I despise console exclusives, they are undoubtedly a strong driving force for consoles. People don't buy a console specifically - they buy whatever machine can play the games that they want to play.

    If consoles did not feature exclusives then I doubt they would dominate gaming like they do today. Many PC gamers own consoles to play certain exclusives and I don't blame them - I've been tempted to buy a console myself many times.

    "Devs" is a shorthand for the entire game development company - including the programmers, executives, marketing people, sales reps and support personnel. There is a lot more to creating a game than just coding and compiling and it is irrational to want the money to only go towards the programmers. I work as a programmer myself and it's well understood that it's a salaried job, but the success of the company as a whole ultimately benefits me - I don't know about anyone else, but job continuity is my primary concern, and that requires a stable company with good cash flow/profits.
     
  13. Backstabak

    Backstabak Master Guru

    Messages:
    572
    Likes Received:
    215
    GPU:
    Gigabyte Rx 5700xt

    How does a console exclusive benefits end user ? It could also be a platform exclusive for xbox and PS without further distinction between them.

    Oh and about profit sharing, basically none of the established companies share profits with their employees. Employees are salaried workers that bear no risk of failure apart from getting fired, but that isn't really tied to the success or failure of the titles they work on, as they can get fired anyway. Case in point is Blizzard who despite record profits fired 800 workers.
     
  14. D3M1G0D

    D3M1G0D Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    2,123
    Likes Received:
    1,358
    GPU:
    2 x GeForce 1080 Ti
    Console exclusives primarily benefit the console makers. If there is a benefit to end-users, it would be in the form of higher quality games from development funds that console makers provide (although that doesn't always work out - Street Fighter V being a good example). Like I said, I despise console exclusives but I understand why companies use them - they're a really good way of attracting customers, who primarily care about the games (not the console itself).

    I didn't even know profit sharing was a thing. I work a salaried job as a programmer and I don't expect any share in the profits, nor do I receive any (nor do I care to receive any). What I want is a stable job with good pay and benefits, which is largely dependent on the overall health of the company. Of course I could get fired at any time (my previous company handed out pink slips for 25% of its staff without warning and I just barely avoided the cut), but the chances are less if the company is more profitable.
     
  15. metagamer

    metagamer Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    1,660
    Likes Received:
    629
    GPU:
    Palit GameRock 2080
    Many companies offer profit shares to management positions, as they're the ones responsible for driving the business. I've worked for a couple of companies with profit shares on top of base salary. The catch is, the base salary is fairly low and then you make up your wages by driving the business as much as you can. It's a clever way of making sure your managers do their upmost to make the business a success.

    It kinda works but there's often only this much you can do as part of the management team, because you'll always have the head office guys dictating what is and isn't plausible. In the end, the end product is fair, it's just a lower salary with some extra pay each month.
     

  16. Backstabak

    Backstabak Master Guru

    Messages:
    572
    Likes Received:
    215
    GPU:
    Gigabyte Rx 5700xt
    Sure the console makers greatly benefit from exclusives, so they naturally pay for them. They console makers are the real winners here with a nice closed ecosystem where they get a cut from everything. I also don't think we really disagree here, I understand why business do these practices, I just disagree that they are net benefit to the customers and it is why I am opposed to the exclusive deals on PC. What EGS does isn't really different, they try to get users on their store to sell them Fortnite and other games. However, they are in a business with a lot of competition and they really have no benefit to offer and therefore attract those customers, so they use the old trick to strongarm their customers to install their client and use their platform.

    It doesn't really matter what is Sweany saying is their reason for exclusives. They are doing the exact same thing as some other businesses and for exactly the same reason - money. It also doesn't really benefit anyone else, but them.
     
    lucidus likes this.
  17. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,040
    Likes Received:
    934
    GPU:
    EVGA XCUltra 2080Ti
    It benefit game developers, not consumers, not yet at least.

    As far as game developement is concerned, the vision of Epic Games is at a degree of knowledge that barely no other company in the gaming industry has, so i don't expect random users of reddit or twitter to understand any of it.

    The heart and soul of Epic Games for over twenty years is in B2B practices, licensing and supporting game developpers from indie to AAA studio to bring their game to market. For OVER 20 freaking years, working to make other game developers succeed so their licensing of unreal engine could work.
    They've tackled hands on issues that the average game consumer has not the slightest insight about.

    30% to 8% cut for storefront is an insanely disruptive move for the industry, as far as game developers not big enough to have their own storefront is concerned.
    I wonder which AAA games are gonna release on steam moving forward, doubt any western company is gonna think about it twice before jumping ships to the Epic Store. Highlight on western countries as opposed to Poland with CD Projekt Red and its game developpers paid half or less as equivalent position in studios at Ubisoft, Bioware, Respawn entertainement, any EA studio really. (which ironically, are now openning studios in Poland too, what a surprise ! speaking of Ubi at least)
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
    Embra and Archvile82 like this.
  18. Backstabak

    Backstabak Master Guru

    Messages:
    572
    Likes Received:
    215
    GPU:
    Gigabyte Rx 5700xt
    The draw of EGS isn't their 8% cut, it is the cash upfront that they offer. It absolutely eliminates the risk of financial failure that is every game release, so the publisher (investor) is absolutely going to go for it and then not care about potentially lost sales due to having already made profit on their investment.

    CD Project red are paying their workers an appropriate wage for the country they live in. It's kinda the same as why most manufacturers have factories in China.
     
  19. XenthorX

    XenthorX Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    3,040
    Likes Received:
    934
    GPU:
    EVGA XCUltra 2080Ti
    I've no problem with that, as long as you don't point the finger to other western game developers saying they're 'greedy'.
    Which has been part of CD Projekt Red marketing since they unveiled CP2077 and it's a narrative that has been carried time and time again on social media, reddit , etc.
     
  20. Netherwind

    Netherwind Ancient Guru

    Messages:
    7,197
    Likes Received:
    1,230
    GPU:
    MSI RTX 2080Ti

Share This Page